Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Zentraedi · 02-06-2003, 11:32 PM

I love Star Trek, not just because of the cool spaceships and aliens, but because some of the ideas Star Trek trys to justify about life. I like the ideas presented that steer clear of religion, and stay in the realm of what could be almost science someday. One thing I've a problem with is the dislike of genetic engineering. Why? Of all the things I think Star Trek might have helped the publics point of view of science, what problem did Gene Rodenberry have with genetic engineering? Even if you think this is a stupid subject to bring up, you have to admit that Star Trek has helped every scientist, and non-religious person out there, get there point of view of reality into the lime-light no matter how off center it may be. I was just wondering if any one else pondered over this Gene vs. Genetic manipulation issues? Hey its a fun question, why not?

Friar Bellows · 02-07-2003, 12:30 AM

Reality? When has Star Trek ever about been about reality? Pseudoscientific nonsense, yes. Racist undertones, yes. Utopian wet dreams, yes. Star Trek has never struck me as an imaginative show. And it never struck me as taking the universe all that seriously, either. Stick a bit of rubber on my face and I'm an alien! If I'm a Klingon, I'm warlike. If I'm a Ferengi I'm greedy. If I'm a Romulan, I can't be trusted. Only if I'm human am I allowed to display a range of emotions and behaviours. But even the humans are limited. As I often like to say, I find the average Japanese person more alien than the aliens on Star Trek. And don't get me started on the Prime Directive! As for its dislike of genetic engineering ... political correctness, perhaps?

Settle down, Friar, it's just entertainment.

Marduk · 02-07-2003, 04:52 AM

I've seen every Star Trek and every Star Trek spinoff and I can't recall a dislike for Genetic Engineering. Didn't they imply that all humanoid life forms were engineered by an ancient race, making the Humans, Vulcans, Romulans etc. all related? Maybe my memory is going. Didn't they engineer a new spine for Worf on TNG?

Amen-Moses · 02-07-2003, 05:05 AM

Well if sticking people through transporters to "re-align" their DNA to counteract the effect of an alien virus isn't "genetic manipulation" then I'm a monkey's uncle (rather than it's nephew).

And yes the reason (eventually) given for the similarities between the various races in our galaxy on ST was that we were all genetically engineered by an ancient race who are now long gone (and who strangely enough looked similar to us) and then seeded on various worlds. The only thing overlooked there was that this "seeding" was supposed to have been done way back in single celled territory so somehow every planet had to have virtually identical evolutionary paths for this to have happened!

That of course is pretty crap, as was the Voyager bollocks about the dinosaurs who escaped the asteroid smash and went to the Delta quadrant (who do you split a spiral into quadrants?) and amazingly ended up evolving to look like us (ish).

The science is pretty crap on that show.

Amen-Moses

sensate · 02-07-2003, 08:44 AM

Did someone say Star Trek had racist undertones? Undertones!? The show racism and sexism seem pretty blatant if you ask me. Dark skinned races are violent, untrustworthy, and stupid. Light skinned racist are smart, cunning(if villains) and natural leaders. All planets, with very few exceptions, are ruled by a single white male.

Enterprise, the current Star Trek incarnation, has got to be one of the worst offenders. In the pilot we get a glimpse at a Star Fleet that is exclusively white and male in its leadership(remember the scene in the hospital with the klingon). The majority of the crew is white, as are the highest ranking positions(captain, first officer, chief engineer, security chief, doctor:all white and almost all male).

Corwin · 02-07-2003, 08:50 AM

Roddenbery was a very foresighted futurist in some areas.... but he was a horrible luddite in others. The society he created was more or less utopian in being free from want and disease.... but Universe help you if you were a super computer....
(Several episodes in the original series consisted entirely of 'find an idyllic, pristine, utopian society, figure out that said society is actually secretly run by a huge supercomputer with lots of impressive flashing lights... proceed to blow up said computer and leave the inhabitants in the lurch assuring them that 'you'll learn to live like REAL humanoids.... Prime directive? What's that?!?!?!?!??') He was very much opposed to automation and computers being in control of anything. (Including things no sane human WANTS control of... that's why people want to automate them in the first place...) He was also very much opposed to changing what he saw as the fundamental aspects of humanity. Transhumanism, with its emphasis on reengineering the human body and mind to get past simple biological limitations, was anathaema to him. (Ever notice how few people in the star trek universe have obvious cybernetics? Or cybernetics at all? And he avoids using the term altogether.)

Asha'man · 02-07-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck
I've seen every Star Trek and every Star Trek spinoff and I can't recall a dislike for Genetic Engineering.

Don't you remember Kahn? He was the product of Genetic Engineering, and was kicked off the Earth in a big war between the "normals" and the "engineered." He also had an ego about the size of Jupiter....

tronvillain · 02-08-2003, 02:00 AM

Genetic engineering is illegal in the Federation. I would call that a dislike for it.

Amen-Moses · 02-08-2003, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sensate
The majority of the crew is white, as are the highest ranking positions(captain, first officer, chief engineer, security chief, doctor:all white and almost all male).

Well the first officer is hardly "white" being a vulcan and the doctor is all sorts of strange colours.

But I do agree that the rest are typical white trash gung-ho sporty college types.

Amen-Moses

Marduk · 02-08-2003, 04:43 AM

"Genetic engineering is illegal in the Federation. I would call that a dislike for it"

Wait a minute, what about Dr. Bashir on DS9? He was a product of Genetic Engineering, one of the few successes, the others were all defective and had to be institutionanalized. I remember the episode where they escaped, they were all wak.

02-06-2003, 11:32 PM	#1
Zentraedi Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Anytown, USA Posts: 103	Star Trek and genetics. I love Star Trek, not just because of the cool spaceships and aliens, but because some of the ideas Star Trek trys to justify about life. I like the ideas presented that steer clear of religion, and stay in the realm of what could be almost science someday. One thing I've a problem with is the dislike of genetic engineering. Why? Of all the things I think Star Trek might have helped the publics point of view of science, what problem did Gene Rodenberry have with genetic engineering? Even if you think this is a stupid subject to bring up, you have to admit that Star Trek has helped every scientist, and non-religious person out there, get there point of view of reality into the lime-light no matter how off center it may be. I was just wondering if any one else pondered over this Gene vs. Genetic manipulation issues? Hey its a fun question, why not?

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02-07-2003, 12:30 AM	#2
Friar Bellows Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: arse-end of the world Posts: 2,305	Reality? When has Star Trek ever about been about reality? Pseudoscientific nonsense, yes. Racist undertones, yes. Utopian wet dreams, yes. Star Trek has never struck me as an imaginative show. And it never struck me as taking the universe all that seriously, either. Stick a bit of rubber on my face and I'm an alien! If I'm a Klingon, I'm warlike. If I'm a Ferengi I'm greedy. If I'm a Romulan, I can't be trusted. Only if I'm human am I allowed to display a range of emotions and behaviours. But even the humans are limited. As I often like to say, I find the average Japanese person more alien than the aliens on Star Trek. And don't get me started on the Prime Directive! As for its dislike of genetic engineering ... political correctness, perhaps? Settle down, Friar, it's just entertainment.

02-07-2003, 04:52 AM	#3
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	I've seen every Star Trek and every Star Trek spinoff and I can't recall a dislike for Genetic Engineering. Didn't they imply that all humanoid life forms were engineered by an ancient race, making the Humans, Vulcans, Romulans etc. all related? Maybe my memory is going. Didn't they engineer a new spine for Worf on TNG?

02-07-2003, 05:05 AM	#4
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	Well if sticking people through transporters to "re-align" their DNA to counteract the effect of an alien virus isn't "genetic manipulation" then I'm a monkey's uncle (rather than it's nephew). And yes the reason (eventually) given for the similarities between the various races in our galaxy on ST was that we were all genetically engineered by an ancient race who are now long gone (and who strangely enough looked similar to us) and then seeded on various worlds. The only thing overlooked there was that this "seeding" was supposed to have been done way back in single celled territory so somehow every planet had to have virtually identical evolutionary paths for this to have happened! That of course is pretty crap, as was the Voyager bollocks about the dinosaurs who escaped the asteroid smash and went to the Delta quadrant (who do you split a spiral into quadrants?) and amazingly ended up evolving to look like us (ish). The science is pretty crap on that show. Amen-Moses

02-07-2003, 08:44 AM	#5
sensate Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 438	Did someone say Star Trek had racist undertones? Undertones!? The show racism and sexism seem pretty blatant if you ask me. Dark skinned races are violent, untrustworthy, and stupid. Light skinned racist are smart, cunning(if villains) and natural leaders. All planets, with very few exceptions, are ruled by a single white male. Enterprise, the current Star Trek incarnation, has got to be one of the worst offenders. In the pilot we get a glimpse at a Star Fleet that is exclusively white and male in its leadership(remember the scene in the hospital with the klingon). The majority of the crew is white, as are the highest ranking positions(captain, first officer, chief engineer, security chief, doctor:all white and almost all male).

02-07-2003, 08:50 AM	#6
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Roddenbery was a very foresighted futurist in some areas.... but he was a horrible luddite in others. The society he created was more or less utopian in being free from want and disease.... but Universe help you if you were a super computer.... (Several episodes in the original series consisted entirely of 'find an idyllic, pristine, utopian society, figure out that said society is actually secretly run by a huge supercomputer with lots of impressive flashing lights... proceed to blow up said computer and leave the inhabitants in the lurch assuring them that 'you'll learn to live like REAL humanoids.... Prime directive? What's that?!?!?!?!??') He was very much opposed to automation and computers being in control of anything. (Including things no sane human WANTS control of... that's why people want to automate them in the first place...) He was also very much opposed to changing what he saw as the fundamental aspects of humanity. Transhumanism, with its emphasis on reengineering the human body and mind to get past simple biological limitations, was anathaema to him. (Ever notice how few people in the star trek universe have obvious cybernetics? Or cybernetics at all? And he avoids using the term altogether.)

02-08-2003, 02:00 AM	#8
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	Genetic engineering is illegal in the Federation. I would call that a dislike for it.

02-08-2003, 04:43 AM	#10
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	"Genetic engineering is illegal in the Federation. I would call that a dislike for it" Wait a minute, what about Dr. Bashir on DS9? He was a product of Genetic Engineering, one of the few successes, the others were all defective and had to be institutionanalized. I remember the episode where they escaped, they were all wak.

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