Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jamie_L · 01-11-2002, 07:32 AM

My quick response to another thread (http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=55&t=000002) made me step back a minute and realize something about myself. I really have never thought much about "why we are all here" or needed an answer to those types of questions.

I had a fairly secular (not atheist) upbringing that was indifferent to religion at home. But I never asked my parents "why are we here?" or "what's the meaning of life?" I went to church sometimes with my friends growing up, but I never felt like it was offering me something I wanted or needed. I wasn't crying out for answers to "why is there evil and chaos in the world?" or "what is my purpose?" Church was just a bunch of boring talking and singing. I liked the thought of life after death, but everything else fell flat.

It seems to me suddenly that this may make me different from a large chunk of humanity. Are most people born with these types of instinctive longings? If so, then I'm kind of a "freak of nature" (and proud to be one). It seems like it must be sort of innate to most humans, otherwise (from my atheist point of view) religion would never have come about.

Anyone else feel this way? That maybe some of us atheists are born different?

Jamie

Mageth · 01-11-2002, 09:40 AM

I think there may be something to that. I come from a family of 6; 4 are (more or less fundie) theists, one is agnostic but into a bit of eastern mystical spiritualism (what some call "new age"), and then there's me, the atheist. I've often wondered why most of my siblings seem to have no problem believing, and I, from a very young age, had a hard time accepting most of the religious stuff I was told.

Beelzebub · 01-11-2002, 10:32 AM

I'm no scientist but I've been interested in this also. Some scientists did hook up a person who was into meditating. When he had reached his most meditative state, they injected die into his brain and found the active regions in the temporal lobe. Among other functions, this area of the brain is where we detirmine where we are in space (what's me and what's not me).They concluded that this is where the sense of "oneness with the universe" comes from. This may be where religious feelings start. Some of us may have brains that work differently. It also may mean that religion will be with us alway as it is "hard wired". Hope this helps.

Henrietta · 01-11-2002, 02:21 PM

I think we are really talking about two separate things here.
1. Does someone have a questioning mind, asking why, what is the meaning, etc.
2. Does the person accept easy answers to those questions or do they keep questioning. Are they willing to accept uncomfortable answers.

hinduwoman · 01-12-2002, 05:48 PM

What about those who are born and raised in religious atmosphere and believed, but then by the sheer use of reason became atheist?

My father was a devout hindu from birth but by the age of 17 had decided religion was nonsense, though nothing in his environment, except exposure to sceince books, could have guided him to atheism.

Many in this board are religious persons turned atheists. so perhaps, atheists are different in some way: perhaps less emotional, less in need of comfort, more secure about their own abilities?

Jamie_L · 01-15-2002, 07:55 AM

Henrietta:

Your point is well taken, but I consider myself to have a very questioning mind - having been fascinated with science all my life. But in my questioning, I never asked the big religious questions: Why am I here? What is the meaning of life?

Hinduwoman:

I'm sure many atheists come to atheism through different routes. I think some ask themselves the big questions, and then find that religion doesn't offer believable answers. I'm just wondering if there's some subset of atheists (like me) that don't seem to be "programmed" to ask those questions. If so, is it nature, or nurture?

Jamie

hinduwoman · 01-15-2002, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie_L:
<strong>
Hinduwoman:

I'm sure many atheists come to atheism through different routes. I think some ask themselves the big questions, and then find that religion doesn't offer believable answers. I'm just wondering if there's some subset of atheists (like me) that don't seem to be "programmed" to ask those questions. If so, is it nature, or nurture?

Jamie</strong>

Well, in my case it is definitely nurture.

butswana · 01-16-2002, 08:26 AM

I was raised Mormon, excomunicated at 16. My earliest memories of church consist of hearing fantastic bible stories, and stuffing them in the same catagory as Mother Goose. It never made sense to me. Hell, I believed in Santa Claus and thought god was fake.
Now, my parents are atleast agnostic, and thier three kids are all athiests.

BigJim · 01-17-2002, 08:43 PM

I dunno, I basically believed all that shit until I went away to college and really began thinking for myself. I was froced to go to Sunday school (moderate Presbyterian church) every week until I was 15 or so. I didn't like it, but I certainly wasn't even agnostic then. I believed because I hadn't thought about an alternative.

Adamantia · 01-17-2002, 10:41 PM

These links may be helpful...

This Is Your Brain on God <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html</a>

‘The ‘God’ Part of the Brain’ by Matthew Alper
<a href="http://www.godpart.com/" target="_blank">http://www.godpart.com/</a>

‘Do People Really believe in god or are they just responding to a chemical reaction occuring in their brains?’
<a href="http://dhushara.tripod.com/book/brainp/bmedit/gbrain.htm" target="_blank">http://dhushara.tripod.com/book/brainp/bmedit/gbrain.htm</a>

Alien Abductions?
<a href="http://www.focus.org.uk/alien.htm" target="_blank">http://www.focus.org.uk/alien.htm</a>
I’ve included this link just cos I think it’s funny...
"Christianity, to take just one example, claims to be based not on mystical experiences, but on the historical facts about Jesus of Nazareth. These historical facts are the best attested facts in the world

from before the present era. Are we supposed to believe that ALL Jesus's first followers had the same thing wrong with their brains at the same time?"

Why Bad Beliefs Don’t Die’ by Gregory W. Lester
<a href="http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html" target="_blank">http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html</a>

The Belief Engine
<a href="http://www.csicop.org/si/9505/belief.html" target="_blank">http://www.csicop.org/si/9505/belief.html</a>

Man Made God
<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s302732.htm" target="_blank">http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s302732.htm</a>
A great interview with Michael Shermer and also Andrew Newberg, author of Why God Won’t Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief.

<a href="http://www.andrewnewberg.com/default.asp" target="_blank">http://www.andrewnewberg.com/default.asp</a>

01-11-2002, 07:32 AM	#1
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	Are some atheists born different? My quick response to another thread (http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=55&t=000002) made me step back a minute and realize something about myself. I really have never thought much about "why we are all here" or needed an answer to those types of questions. I had a fairly secular (not atheist) upbringing that was indifferent to religion at home. But I never asked my parents "why are we here?" or "what's the meaning of life?" I went to church sometimes with my friends growing up, but I never felt like it was offering me something I wanted or needed. I wasn't crying out for answers to "why is there evil and chaos in the world?" or "what is my purpose?" Church was just a bunch of boring talking and singing. I liked the thought of life after death, but everything else fell flat. It seems to me suddenly that this may make me different from a large chunk of humanity. Are most people born with these types of instinctive longings? If so, then I'm kind of a "freak of nature" (and proud to be one). It seems like it must be sort of innate to most humans, otherwise (from my atheist point of view) religion would never have come about. Anyone else feel this way? That maybe some of us atheists are born different? Jamie

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01-11-2002, 09:40 AM	#2
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I think there may be something to that. I come from a family of 6; 4 are (more or less fundie) theists, one is agnostic but into a bit of eastern mystical spiritualism (what some call "new age"), and then there's me, the atheist. I've often wondered why most of my siblings seem to have no problem believing, and I, from a very young age, had a hard time accepting most of the religious stuff I was told.

01-11-2002, 10:32 AM	#3
Beelzebub Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 554	I'm no scientist but I've been interested in this also. Some scientists did hook up a person who was into meditating. When he had reached his most meditative state, they injected die into his brain and found the active regions in the temporal lobe. Among other functions, this area of the brain is where we detirmine where we are in space (what's me and what's not me).They concluded that this is where the sense of "oneness with the universe" comes from. This may be where religious feelings start. Some of us may have brains that work differently. It also may mean that religion will be with us alway as it is "hard wired". Hope this helps.

01-11-2002, 02:21 PM	#4
Henrietta Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: West USA Posts: 380	I think we are really talking about two separate things here. 1. Does someone have a questioning mind, asking why, what is the meaning, etc. 2. Does the person accept easy answers to those questions or do they keep questioning. Are they willing to accept uncomfortable answers.

01-12-2002, 05:48 PM	#5
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	What about those who are born and raised in religious atmosphere and believed, but then by the sheer use of reason became atheist? My father was a devout hindu from birth but by the age of 17 had decided religion was nonsense, though nothing in his environment, except exposure to sceince books, could have guided him to atheism. Many in this board are religious persons turned atheists. so perhaps, atheists are different in some way: perhaps less emotional, less in need of comfort, more secure about their own abilities?

01-15-2002, 07:55 AM	#6
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	Henrietta: Your point is well taken, but I consider myself to have a very questioning mind - having been fascinated with science all my life. But in my questioning, I never asked the big religious questions: Why am I here? What is the meaning of life? Hinduwoman: I'm sure many atheists come to atheism through different routes. I think some ask themselves the big questions, and then find that religion doesn't offer believable answers. I'm just wondering if there's some subset of atheists (like me) that don't seem to be "programmed" to ask those questions. If so, is it nature, or nurture? Jamie

01-16-2002, 08:26 AM	#8
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	I was raised Mormon, excomunicated at 16. My earliest memories of church consist of hearing fantastic bible stories, and stuffing them in the same catagory as Mother Goose. It never made sense to me. Hell, I believed in Santa Claus and thought god was fake. Now, my parents are atleast agnostic, and thier three kids are all athiests.

01-17-2002, 08:43 PM	#9
BigJim Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Stepford, CT Posts: 4,296	I dunno, I basically believed all that shit until I went away to college and really began thinking for myself. I was froced to go to Sunday school (moderate Presbyterian church) every week until I was 15 or so. I didn't like it, but I certainly wasn't even agnostic then. I believed because I hadn't thought about an alternative.

01-17-2002, 10:41 PM	#10
Adamantia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 63	These links may be helpful... This Is Your Brain on God <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html" target="_blank">http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html</a> ‘The ‘God’ Part of the Brain’ by Matthew Alper <a href="http://www.godpart.com/" target="_blank">http://www.godpart.com/</a> ‘Do People Really believe in god or are they just responding to a chemical reaction occuring in their brains?’ <a href="http://dhushara.tripod.com/book/brainp/bmedit/gbrain.htm" target="_blank">http://dhushara.tripod.com/book/brainp/bmedit/gbrain.htm</a> Alien Abductions? <a href="http://www.focus.org.uk/alien.htm" target="_blank">http://www.focus.org.uk/alien.htm</a> I’ve included this link just cos I think it’s funny... "Christianity, to take just one example, claims to be based not on mystical experiences, but on the historical facts about Jesus of Nazareth. These historical facts are the best attested facts in the world from before the present era. Are we supposed to believe that ALL Jesus's first followers had the same thing wrong with their brains at the same time?" Why Bad Beliefs Don’t Die’ by Gregory W. Lester <a href="http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html" target="_blank">http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html</a> The Belief Engine <a href="http://www.csicop.org/si/9505/belief.html" target="_blank">http://www.csicop.org/si/9505/belief.html</a> Man Made God <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s302732.htm" target="_blank">http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s302732.htm</a> A great interview with Michael Shermer and also Andrew Newberg, author of Why God Won’t Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief. <a href="http://www.andrewnewberg.com/default.asp" target="_blank">http://www.andrewnewberg.com/default.asp</a>

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