Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mibby529 · 07-31-2002, 01:54 PM

Nostradamus first became popular with the Nazis; you'd be surprised how easily references to the "twisted cross" and "Hister" can be shoehorned. Since then, everyone's come up with fake quatrains. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

I don't know WHERE you could find the original quatrains.

Herman Hedning · 07-31-2002, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mibby529:
<strong>I don't know WHERE you could find the original quatrains.</strong>

Do you mean the manuscripts from Nostradamus own pen? Don't know about that, but the quatrains were published several times while he was still alive and those books still exist. The quatrains are online for instance <a href="http://esoterism.com/nostradamus/centuri2.htm" target="_blank">here</a>.

Answerer · 08-01-2002, 01:47 AM

Well, I , seriously don't think Nostradamus could even predict actually the time when I took my next lunch.

Freemind · 08-01-2002, 04:44 AM

Nostradamus couldn't predict his next bowel movement let alone world history 1000 years ahead of his time! The man took drugs and divined in a bowl of water for petes sake! He got the french Queen right into the fortune-telling crap probably just so he could score with her.

And Nosty wrote in old french not latin as best as I could recall.

SRWelch · 08-01-2002, 05:43 AM

Everyone -- thanks for your responses. The tip on Nostradamus' writing in Old French, not Latin, as well as some of the comments on the bad Latin are helpful.

The purported author, Francois Gautier, is a correspondent with Le Figaro, and a sympathizer with Indian nationalism. It's very disappointing to see a legitimate journalist's name attached to this trip.

Oh well . . .

08-01-2002, 06:27 AM

The latin seems to be almost total nonsense. Neither the Romans nor ND would have had a word for "yoga", ditto for Sanskrit. I haven't got a Latin dictionary where I am at present, but I am pretty sure that a lot of the words are French words with "us" or "um" tacked on. "Veni" means "I came", not "(they/it) will come". "Villagum" isn't classical Latin. It isn't even mediaeval Latin, which did, however, have a word "villagium".

"Introdum" isn't correct Latin. I imagine it is meant to be the gerundive of "introducere", in which case it ought to be "introductus", if it is meant to agree with "Sanskritus" and if that were the correct word for "Sanskrit".

"Malheureusus" cannot be any sort of Latin. It is clearly from French. Is the writer trying to write in old French?

I cannot believe that anyone who knew Latin would call India "Indianus". The Latin word for India was "India". "Blancus" is the French word for "white" with "us" added. The Latin word for "white" is "albus".

There is more of the same, but it's really too boring! It reads like the sort of "latin" that schoolchildren make up. Far too many words ending in "us" or "um" and nothing 3rd declension or beyond.

Even if we assume that ND was an ignorant pig who wrote bad Latin, I doubt that it would have been bad in this particular way. In the 16th century, a high proportion of the literate would have studied Latin for a number of years and would probably have used it as a means of communication.

People who know more Latin than I do can, I am sure, pick enormous holes in the grammar as well as the vocabulary.

Scorpion · 08-01-2002, 09:39 AM

That's really so horrible a hoax that it makes me doubt if the writer ever intended it to be taken for real - you sure this wasn't published 1st April? If you compare this with the Bush election quatrain or Two Towers quatrain where the prankster at least had the decency of combining lines from Nostradamus's real works, this is certainly a lousy piece of prose (and don't even get me started about the Latin...)

BTW, I like to play a strategic board war game called Diplomacy (situated in 1900's Europe with 7 powers) by e-mail, and it is customary to send in 'press' to published along with every turn's orders. In one game where I played France I decided to quote a Nostradamus quatrain appropriate to the situation - whatever it was - in my press, and despite the fact that the events in the game didn't correspond to any historical events, I was able to find a suitable quote for every turn (I think the game lasted some dozen turns or so). There was even one turn when all four lines of the quatrain had clear meaning with such an accuracy that it could be called a direct hit...

-S-

enigma555 · 08-01-2002, 10:55 AM

If a Nostrodamous "quote" doesn't have chapter/quatraine citations along with it, it's a hoax.

If it does, it's a hoax anyway, but that's another story...

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07-31-2002, 01:54 PM	#11
mibby529 Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cali Posts: 170	Nostradamus first became popular with the Nazis; you'd be surprised how easily references to the "twisted cross" and "Hister" can be shoehorned. Since then, everyone's come up with fake quatrains. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> I don't know WHERE you could find the original quatrains.

08-01-2002, 01:47 AM	#13
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Well, I , seriously don't think Nostradamus could even predict actually the time when I took my next lunch.

08-01-2002, 04:44 AM	#14
Freemind Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 47	Nostradamus couldn't predict his next bowel movement let alone world history 1000 years ahead of his time! The man took drugs and divined in a bowl of water for petes sake! He got the french Queen right into the fortune-telling crap probably just so he could score with her. And Nosty wrote in old french not latin as best as I could recall.

08-01-2002, 05:43 AM	#15
SRWelch Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Washington, DC USA Posts: 11	Everyone -- thanks for your responses. The tip on Nostradamus' writing in Old French, not Latin, as well as some of the comments on the bad Latin are helpful. The purported author, Francois Gautier, is a correspondent with Le Figaro, and a sympathizer with Indian nationalism. It's very disappointing to see a legitimate journalist's name attached to this trip. Oh well . . .

08-01-2002, 06:27 AM	#16
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	The latin seems to be almost total nonsense. Neither the Romans nor ND would have had a word for "yoga", ditto for Sanskrit. I haven't got a Latin dictionary where I am at present, but I am pretty sure that a lot of the words are French words with "us" or "um" tacked on. "Veni" means "I came", not "(they/it) will come". "Villagum" isn't classical Latin. It isn't even mediaeval Latin, which did, however, have a word "villagium". "Introdum" isn't correct Latin. I imagine it is meant to be the gerundive of "introducere", in which case it ought to be "introductus", if it is meant to agree with "Sanskritus" and if that were the correct word for "Sanskrit". "Malheureusus" cannot be any sort of Latin. It is clearly from French. Is the writer trying to write in old French? I cannot believe that anyone who knew Latin would call India "Indianus". The Latin word for India was "India". "Blancus" is the French word for "white" with "us" added. The Latin word for "white" is "albus". There is more of the same, but it's really too boring! It reads like the sort of "latin" that schoolchildren make up. Far too many words ending in "us" or "um" and nothing 3rd declension or beyond. Even if we assume that ND was an ignorant pig who wrote bad Latin, I doubt that it would have been bad in this particular way. In the 16th century, a high proportion of the literate would have studied Latin for a number of years and would probably have used it as a means of communication. People who know more Latin than I do can, I am sure, pick enormous holes in the grammar as well as the vocabulary.

08-01-2002, 09:39 AM	#17
Scorpion Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 915	That's really so horrible a hoax that it makes me doubt if the writer ever intended it to be taken for real - you sure this wasn't published 1st April? If you compare this with the Bush election quatrain or Two Towers quatrain where the prankster at least had the decency of combining lines from Nostradamus's real works, this is certainly a lousy piece of prose (and don't even get me started about the Latin...) BTW, I like to play a strategic board war game called Diplomacy (situated in 1900's Europe with 7 powers) by e-mail, and it is customary to send in 'press' to published along with every turn's orders. In one game where I played France I decided to quote a Nostradamus quatrain appropriate to the situation - whatever it was - in my press, and despite the fact that the events in the game didn't correspond to any historical events, I was able to find a suitable quote for every turn (I think the game lasted some dozen turns or so). There was even one turn when all four lines of the quatrain had clear meaning with such an accuracy that it could be called a direct hit... -S-

08-01-2002, 10:55 AM	#18
enigma555 Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 282	If a Nostrodamous "quote" doesn't have chapter/quatraine citations along with it, it's a hoax. If it does, it's a hoax anyway, but that's another story...

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