Roland

There seems to be some concern on here lately that the comparisons between pagan figures like Dionysus (Bacchus) and Jesus Christ arise from some kind of newfangled, New Age view of mythology.

However, I was recently perusing a copy of Edith Mitchell’s famous book “Mythology,” the 1940 classic that is often regarded as “the Bible” on this subject, and came across this description of Dionysus on pages 63 and 64. Please note that Ms. Hamilton uses as her sources virtually only writers from the 5th Century B.C. and earlier AND that she is in no way trying to make a case for Jesus’ mythological roots since that subject is never once mentioned anywhere in her work.

This is how she describes Dionysus:

“This strange god, the gay reveler, the cruel hunter, the lofty inspirer, was also the SUFFERER. He, like Demeter, was afflicted, not because of grief for another, as she was, but because of his own pain. HE WAS THE VINE, which is always pruned as nothing else that bears fruit; every branch cut away, only the bare stock left; through the winter a dead thing to look at, an old gnarled stump seeming incapable of ever putting forth leaves again…his death was terrible: he was torn to pieces, in some stories by Titans, in others by Hera’s orders. HE WAS ALWAYS BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE; HE DIED AND ROSE AGAIN. IT WAS HIS JOYFUL RESURRECTION they celebrated in his theatre.

He was the assurance that DEATH DOES NOT END ALL. His worshippers believed that HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION ALLOWED THAT THE SOUL LIVES ON FOREVER AFTER THE BODY DIES. This faith was part of the mysteries of Eleusis.”

Anyone familiar with Euripedes’ play “The Bacchae” knows that there are many echoes in it of the story of Jesus that would emerge almost 500 years later. Some of the lines, particularly those when Bacchus is called before the king for prosecution, sound almost as if the gospel writers stole them verbatim.

Hamilton also quotes the 5th Century B.C. writer, Aeschylus, in his version of the story of Prometheus being tied to the rock and having his liver eaten out daily by an eagle. The centaur, Chiron, though immortal, agrees to sacrifice himself to save Prometheus. Hermes pleads with Prometheus thus:

“Look for no ending to this agony UNTIL A GOD WILL FREELY SUFFER FOR YOU, WILL TAKE ON HIM YOUR PAIN, AND IN YOUR STEAD DESCEND TO WHERE THE SUN IS TURNED TO DARKNESS, THE BLACK DEPTHS OF DEATH.”

Sound familiar?

Magus55

Judaism and the promise of Jesus Christ, the Messiah was established long before Ancient Greece. What makes you think the Greeks didn't take the ideas of God and the future messiah from Judaism?

Roland

"The promise of Jesus Christ" in the Old Testament is strictly in the eye of the beholder.

I've never noticed anything in the OT about a god becoming flesh, dying and resurrecting. I doubt most Jewish scholars would find it either.

lpetrich

Furthermore, nobody in Classical-era Greece seems to have known much about the Jews -- if anything at all. Even the great historian Herodotus did not seem to know anything about them.

And they worshipped several deities, not a single one who was presumed to be the only "real" one.

Answerer

If not, then where do the idea of messiah come about?

Roland

As any Jewish person will tell you, "the messiah" was supposed to be an earthly king who brought the nation of Israel to a position of great prominence in the world.

It was the CHRISTIANS who came up with this idea of a dying divine savior being the messiah.

Moreover, how could Judaism, which was supposedly the only "monotheistic" religion around, have as one of its core tenets, a dying, rising god figure?!

Answerer

Frankly, I don't think early christians, the Nazarenes, believed that Jesus was or is divine. Its the later christians or Roman catholics under Paul influence that start the whole mess of saviour nonsense.

Anyway, I got some Jewish friends telling me that Jesus is not the rightful Messiah and hat their "rightful Messiah" had not arrived or born in Earth yet. So, according to your view, I guess that they must have been influenced by the christians, right?

Jeremy Pallant

What makes you think they did?

Roland

Of course not. The messiah has to be BORN. Any man has to be. What does this have to do with Jews today being influenced by Christians?

CX

That view, if it exists, is extremely shortsighted and lacking in basic knowledge of Xian history. As early as Justin Martyr (and no doubt earlier) it is clear that people drew parallels between Xianity and other religious traditions. Numerous apologies were written refuting just such claims. Why else create the notion of "diabolical fictions" to describe apparent precursors to the Christ myth that bear striking resemblance to the same?