ybnormal

seebs...

You are most confused.

Now, you're responding to me about stuff td said, and calling it my basic premise... then you're saying that I make no sense. You're trying to guess my "complaint" after I've clearly laid it out for you. Best tho, is you're giving me lessons on how to make you shut up. I'm sure I'll read that part again in the morning.

seebs

Huh.

I was responding to your comment:

You're understanding it wrong; it stops at "you are flawed", and there is an implicit "like everyone else".

If people are using it in the sense you are interpreting it, they're wrong. If they're not, and you're just hearing it that way, it's your own problem.

Bree

To me, hearing "you are a sinner" implies "you are flawed like everyone else, but at least I had the good sense to believe in Jesus."

seebs

Heh! I wouldn't mean it that way, but I can see how you might.

The more I think about it, the more I come to suspect that a lot of people *do* mean it as "I'm better than you", which is just offensive. Ugh. Ah, well; maybe I can educate some of them.

Soul Invictus

The first definition doesn't infer much, (the portion alluding to a heathen being uncivilized) because only the religious would say to not be like them is uncivilized, which is typical of the religious....to spew a condescending dogmatic proclivity toward non-believers

if to sin is to do wrong, all humans err, whether by behavior (which is determined by society's or that person's moral code) or by performance.

seebs

Exactly!

Soul Invictus

IN YOUR DEFENSE-To an extent you do have a point. The concept of right/wrong is primarily a moral issue, more so than one of fact, in my opinion. If your value system dictates that you have not violated your code of conduct, then technically I guess you possibly have not done wrong, which in turn would be a truth.

TO REFUTE YOU-Although the concept of right/wrong is stemmed in a person's value system, which is subjective, there is factual basis to it as well. If you have been formally educated, and within this system you learn numbers, and you learn how to add and subtract these numbers, (according to the mathematical system in which you've been trained) then under your rules, you basically are saying you have never made a mathematical error in your life, which I highly doubt. You are also saying you have never received a traffic citation, fine, grades lower than A's or under 100%,jail time, parental punishment or rebuke, and any of the host of consequences associated with a failure to comply correctly or adequately within the confines of said system. In my educational example, receiving a "B" would be determined as your grade for "B" work, or work that is inferior or less correct than "A" work.

I don't know this to be true of you or any other human... to err isn't bad, it's human nature...I don't understand all the aversion to this concept

Invictus

Celsus

All your sin are belong to Jesus

seebs

Heh. There's an idea, AYBABTU ministries.

"YOU HAVE NO CHANCE OF SALVATION MAKE YOUR TIME!"

Hmm. Maybe not a *good* idea.

"READ EVERY PRAYER! FOR GREAT JUSTICE!"

ybnormal