shome42

If God will ultimately send the good to Heaven and the bad to Hell, then why bother with justice on Earth? Why do you care if someone kills your mother? After all, she will enjoy eternal paradise and her killer will endure eternal torture. When you put life in the context of eternity, what happens in the next 80 or so years seems negligable.

I don't understand why Xians are so hypocritical with regard to justice on Earth. They claim to believe in an ultimate judgement but insist on man-made laws.

The Bible says to turn the other cheek. That makes sense. It's at least consistent with the doctrine of final judgement upon death. You might as well remain pure whilst others commit crimes against you-- it will ensure their Hellish fate and your Heavenly one. Quakers, if my understanding is correct that they are pacifist, are consistent in this regard.

But most Xians don't turn the other cheek. They insist upon Earthly retribution. Why?

I suspect Xians, no matter how much they will deny it, deeply know this is the only life there is to live. Therefore they insist upon justice immediately.

If Xians truly believed God would dole out punishment and reward upon death, in a truly just manner, then why would they care about justice on Earth???

Let there be chaos...God will sort it out shortly, right?

Jinto

There is actually a biblical defense of punishment. It's called the Old Testament. Of course, that did advocate stoning as the standard method of execution, so that makes Christians hypocritical in not executing everyone who disagree with them.

I guess Christianity is just hypocritical. :boohoo:

Philosoft

Not philosophy; let's punt to GRD...

Appius

shome42,
Personally we should forgive each other, but the government does not bear the sword for nothing. For instance,
Rom. 13:4 "For he is the minister of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that does evil."

Psycho Economist

Short version? The New Testament claims the Christian god won't judge people on the malevolence or benevolence of their actions, but rather on their religious beliefs.

Allegedly, penitent criminals who are Christian will get to heaven and non-believing murder victims will go to hell.

I'm not so sure that's the motivation... First, we didn't last long enough enough to contemplate life-after-death but by making ourselves safe from those who would do us wrong and I think that's hard to overwrite. Second, you're ruling out another alternative that they feel reward / punishment based on belief is unjust. Third, the simplest answer is that they want a safe society that's conducive to practicing Christianity, however they see it.

Melkor

I've never understood why they are so adamant about earthly retrubution for "crimes" either.

By their own admission, GOD is the final judge, jury, and executioner... HE is the only one that will make the final determination about someone's fate.

Isn't it a teeny bit arrogant to presume to take that role from God before He gets the chance to?

For that matter, why is it that most of these religious types who claim to be all for "personal responsibility" are the same ones who want to outlaw things they consider "immoral"?

That doesn't exactly encourage personal responsibility... if anything, it is the proliferation of the Nanny State.... the direct OPPOSITE of "personal responsibility".

shome42

Isn't that a very protestant notion? If I'm not mistaken, Catholocism doesn't emphesize belief over actions. Isn't this the reason they've differentiated between venial and mortal sins? Similarly, Catholics don't require that you believe in Jesus to go to Heaven.

Catholics still argue that you can do very bad things and go to Heaven, but in my experience, they teach you will be held accountable for your actions, if not in Hell then in Purgatory.

So what excuse to Catholics have for seeking retribution on Earth???? Even if the criminal is not sent to Hell for eternity, he will have to account for his actions-- he will suffer. How dare they usurp God's divine justice?

Starboy

Not only is the "Nanny State" the opposite of "personal responsibility" but it is also opposed to freedom, the concept this country was founded on. In all fairness I don't think Christians can take direct credit (blame) for the "Nanny State". It seems to me that the rise of political power of people who think mostly with their wombs is largely the cause. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing but using the law to protect us from ourselves is like using a sledge hammer to cook dinner, everything is going to come out one way, smashed.

If anything the emergence of the “Nanny State” is an indication that religion’s purported social role of teaching us how to live life well is an utter failure. The reason is obvious, religion is out of sync with this day and age, and no one takes it seriously, not even those that practice it. Monday through Saturday we all live in the real world, on Sunday the Christians live in a fantasy world. We sorely need a system of ethics that isn’t built around referents that come from a time when the best they could do to explain their surroundings was to invoke spirits, souls, demons, gods, and so forth.

Starboy