Queen of Swords

After about eight years on the various II boards, I've seen a lot of ways in which Christians interact with non-christians. There are some Christians whom I have a lot of respect for, both for their stance on various non-EOG topics and for their general character as expressed on the board - Helen, seebs, wildernesse, etc. There are some Christians with whom I might not agree on anything, but I still like their style, because they don't get angry or sarcastic (not that I don't enjoy sarcasm, done well, but I respect their self-control and determination to follow the rules of their religion). And then there is the very small subset of Christians who, either with or without provocation, resort to insults.

When confronted, these Christians have many excuses for their behavior. Perhaps they were only mirroring the treatment they get from atheists, or they are not perfect, or Jesus insulted the Pharisees, so they should be able to do the same thing to the infidels. However, I have never seen any of these excuses work. No one ever replies, "boy howdy, you're right! And I'm ready to repent me of my sins!" People can smell hypocrisy a mile away, and it has the olfactory properties of fresh bullshit.

Part of the problem (for these unusual Christians, anyway) is that unbelievers usually know the bible very well, and are familiar with the verses which enjoin Christians to be meek, kind, forgiving, non-confrontational, and so on. There's even a verse in Isaiah which says, "be ye not mockers", so even the Old Testament seems to frown upon that behavior. Ultimately, this tactic ends up backfiring, because unbelievers will feel free to conclude that the insult-using Christian needs to practice what he or she preaches. Or else the unbeliever might think, "If this is how Christians behave, I'm one already!"

It's not possible to eat one's cake and have it, just as it's not possible to call people insulting names and simultaneously portray Christianity as a good religion. Therefore, I have to wonder why any Christian would resort to this tactic, or would try to justify such a loss of self-control and such disobedience to the commands of their own god. And the excuses don't fool anyone. Even if such a Christian were to slip up and give in to temper, a sincere apology would command more respect than an excuse would. After all, if Christianity does not make you behave like a better person, why should anyone else follow it?

And the bottom line is that hypocrisy doesn't work. I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but the moment I see anyone - Christian or otherwise - behaving in a hypocritical fashion, I don't take them seriously. Whereas if a Christian acts in such a way as to show the fruits of the Spirit ("love, joy and peace. It is being patient, kind, and good. It is being faithful and gentle and having control of oneself" Galatians 5:22-23) the Christian not only gains respect themselves but may convince someone "on the fence" that Christianity has merit after all. By their fruits ye shall know them.

spurly

Thanks for holding up a mirror to the Christians on this site. This is something that I try to drive home with our students all the time. If you expect people to listen to the incredible story of God's love, then you have to let God's love shine through you.

Thanks again for the mirror. I hope that all Christians will undersand where you are coming from.

Kevin

fatherphil

one thing to remember, some folks are better at some fruits than others. patience is much easier for me now then 20 years ago when i was a young adult. lets just accept the fact that evangelism is not every Christian's strength.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by fatherphil
one thing to remember, some folks are better at some fruits than others.

Should those folks who are not good at some fruits be therefore excused when they fail to demonstrate those fruits - and allowed to continue in this failing - or should they realize that this is a fault and then ask God's help in overcoming it?

lets just accept the fact that evangelism is not every Christian's strength.

Would you say the same thing about, for example, Fred Phelps's behavior towards gay people? "Let's just accept the fact that kindness/love is not every Christian's strength"?

I would have thought the strength of all Christians was Jesus, who said that Christians should demonstrate love towards their enemies. I don't recall him making any exceptions in this regard, but please let me know if there are any.

Rhea

Well put QoS.

FatherPhil, do you suppose that if Jesus' teachings arent' the strengths of all christians that maybe being christian just "doesn't work" and that is what they are starkly displaying?

Maybe Christianity would benefit from some sort of exam that Christians should have to demonstrate some small proficiency in being "Christian" before they are encouraged to go portray christianity. For the church's sake that is, because I sure don't care about their claim that Christianity works while they simultaneously portray conclusively that it doesn't.

You know?

QoS has offered an insightful suggestion for making evangelizing more effective. You can take it to heart, or you can respond, "well being a christian clearly doesn't make me any better than you, even though I'm claiming it does."

Your call.

Oxymoron

Just because someone's a xian doesn't prevent them having emotions and "going off on one"; or feeling fear when threatened intellectually. As an atheist, I believe xianity is a pile of poo anyway, and so believers will experience the same sorts of ups and downs that we all do in the course of our daily lives, irrespective of what silliness they believe.

Rhea

I agree, and that's my point - and I think QoS's.

Christians behave just like anybody else.
But they preach that being Christian makes them compelled to and able to behave better (scripture says so...)
But... they don't.
Thereby proving the Bible wrong.

It's almost poetic.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by OM
Just because someone's a xian doesn't prevent them having emotions and "going off on one"; or feeling fear when threatened intellectually.

Exactly, but are they allowed to? Do their god and their holy book say that it's OK for them to lose their tempers? No, they are supposed to be better than that.

My point is simple. Correct your own behavior before you tell other people to correct theirs (I believe Jesus was not overly fond of hypocrisy, and he said something about taking the plank out of one's own eye). If evangelism is not your strength, are you doing your religion a favor by going around insulting people? Shouldn't you pray and try to correct that shortcoming before you do any more evangelizing - though in this case, it would be more like "evangelizing for the other side".

Starboy

QOS, as I see it, hypocracy is not the most glaring defect of some Christians. The defect that a great number of Christians share that I find the most offensive is intolerance. A tolerant person is not out to convert the world to their religion.

Starboy

Oxymoron

Within their own frame of reference, I think xianity is big on shallow forgiveness. They can do just about anything, then ask Big G to be absolved. So yes, even in their own system they are allowed to be human but encouraged to be saintly. Which seems fair enough in a way because a system that doesn't allow you to be human and exacts harsh punishments for deviation from an impossible target isn't going to be popular (orthodoxy, in other words).