Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Laurentius · 09-20-2002, 01:23 PM

AVE

God is attributed several absolute qualities that seem to build up his <a href="http://www.fecundity.com/pmagnus/perfection.html" target="_blank">perfection</a>, but wit does not seem to be one of them.

Now, what can it be so wrong about wit?
Suppose God existed, and he were the one in the Bible,
shouldn’t he be endowed with extraordinary intelligence?
Shouldn’t he have an exquisite ability to perceive and understand?
And shouldn’t God be witty enough to laugh if he were to see something subtly humorous?

Then how come God seems so dull and cranky?
And how come activist Christians’ sense of humor is so tense and wanting?

Why don't they seem willing to accept the idea that, among being other things, God may very well be All-Witty?

AVE

Hugo Holbling · 09-20-2002, 02:27 PM

Quote:

...but wit does not seem to be one of them.

I think you're on to something here, Laurentius. Whenever i think of life as a farce created by our Lord for my amusement, it all makes sense.

Or maybe, like God Himself, i'm just a fuckwit?

09-20-2002, 02:58 PM

"Dead Souls" is an extremely witty comedy. Somewhere in the middle the words appear "he has no equal, he is God" (sorry my copy is out on loan).

Grumpy · 09-20-2002, 03:08 PM

I would think that the tediousness of the Bible (OT and NT) and Quran indicates that God is not witty. As Polonius briefly said, "Brevity is... wit."

What makes us think that wittiness is a positive virtue? Maybe God is omni-serious.

[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Grumpy ]</p>

Kenny · 09-20-2002, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laurentius:
Now, what can it be so wrong about wit?
Suppose God existed, and he were the one in the Bible,
shouldn’t he be endowed with extraordinary intelligence?
Shouldn’t he have an exquisite ability to perceive and understand?

Absolutely.

Quote:

And shouldn’t God be witty enough to laugh if he were to see something subtly humorous?

Yes, I think so.

Quote:

Then how come God seems so dull and cranky?
And how come activist Christians’ sense of humor is so tense and wanting?

I don’t know why it seems so to you. Perhaps you have not met the same joy filled Christians that I have. But, since Joy is a fruit of the Spirit, lack of Joy in one’s life is a sign that there is something wrong spiritually. God is a being characterized by Joy, and the ultimate source of it. As for those Christians who feel the need to be somber all the time, I think Jesus might say to them something to the effect of “Lighten up!”

Quote:

Why don't they seem willing to accept the idea that, among being other things, God may very well be All-Witty?

I see no problem with such a characterization.

God Bless,
Kenny

VirusInTheSystem · 09-20-2002, 09:30 PM

God, in my personal experience, seems to have a very ironic sense of humor. He also seems to enjoy practical jokes.

Why do you think God isn't witty?

Jobar · 09-21-2002, 11:56 AM

Well, he supposedly sent bears to eat the children who were laughing at one of his prophets' bald head. I'd say this indicates a pronounced lack of good humor.

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/ipuprophecy/jobar1.html" target="_blank">The Invisible Pink Unicorn</a>, however, is omnihumorous. Praise, that She is Fun-loving!

Laurentius · 09-21-2002, 08:07 PM

AVE

I don't remember having ever heard of God being witty. Or of Christians lauding wit. Take the link I gave above, for instance. A lot of (more or less familiar) attributes are given, but wit isn't even hinted at:

omnipotence
omniscience
omnipresence
omnibenevolence
omnidoxence
omniabsence
omnimalevolence
omnisyllogence
omniontologence
omniomnience
omnicorpulence
omnicrapulence
omnihilism
omnitemperence

The idea of this thread occured to me while a friend of mine and I were talking about the qualities of a harmonious personality. I instantly thought of wit. And then I realized that religious model of perfection doesn't include wit. Christians are not supposed to be witty because Jesus himself was not.

It is not wit that is praised in the Bible but wisdom. God and the biblical characters expected to make role models never seem to have any sense of humor.

Religious writings reveal the traditional anti-profane attitude of the rigorous and intolerant spirits. For them humor and laughter are indecent and blasphemous.

Wit has always been the enemy of deeply religious and puritan souls. Plato strongly condemned wit in his Republic. Early Christian apologists (Tertulian etc) militated against the comic and asked for the ban of any kind of theatrical performance. Pascal also found it outrageous. In Moliere’s times writing comedies was likely to trigger the excommunication of the author; actors were banished away from Paris.

The free manifestation of wit that we witness today is the consequence of a revolution that didn't even occur to the initial French revolutionaries that everyone take as examples of openmindedness. Nowadays free laughter and the satire on any aspect of reality no longer account for the “corruption of morals, disorder, and economic waste” as J.-J. Rousseau thought wit did.

AVE

Grumpy · 09-22-2002, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laurentius:
Christians are not supposed to be witty because Jesus himself was not.

John 1:48-50

Quote:

"How do you know me," Nathaniel asked.
Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were under the fig tree when Phillip called you."
Then Nathaniel declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."
Jesus said, "Because I told you I saw you under the fig tree, you believe? You shall see greater things than that."

Okay, I modified the punchline a bit to make Jesus sound more like Jackie Mason. In addition, you gotta wonder if Jesus was winking when he cursed that fig tree for not giving fruit out of season.

leonarde · 09-22-2002, 10:30 AM

There's one entire book whose topic is the Divine
humour. The title is something like "The Humor
of Christ" and is by a guy named Trueblood(?).
Must be a 30 or 40 year old book. Probably out
of print. I haven't seen it in ages but the author
makes some interesting observations: irony of the
gentle sort seems to be in abundance in the Gospels.........

09-20-2002, 01:23 PM	#1
Laurentius Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lucky Bucky, Oz Posts: 5,645	Is God All-Witty? AVE God is attributed several absolute qualities that seem to build up his <a href="http://www.fecundity.com/pmagnus/perfection.html" target="_blank">perfection</a>, but wit does not seem to be one of them. Now, what can it be so wrong about wit? Suppose God existed, and he were the one in the Bible, shouldn’t he be endowed with extraordinary intelligence? Shouldn’t he have an exquisite ability to perceive and understand? And shouldn’t God be witty enough to laugh if he were to see something subtly humorous? Then how come God seems so dull and cranky? And how come activist Christians’ sense of humor is so tense and wanting? Why don't they seem willing to accept the idea that, among being other things, God may very well be All-Witty? AVE

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09-20-2002, 02:58 PM	#3
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	"Dead Souls" is an extremely witty comedy. Somewhere in the middle the words appear "he has no equal, he is God" (sorry my copy is out on loan).

09-20-2002, 03:08 PM	#4
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	I would think that the tediousness of the Bible (OT and NT) and Quran indicates that God is not witty. As Polonius briefly said, "Brevity is... wit." What makes us think that wittiness is a positive virtue? Maybe God is omni-serious. [ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Grumpy ]</p>

09-20-2002, 09:30 PM	#6
VirusInTheSystem Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Maryville, TN; U.S.A Posts: 30	God, in my personal experience, seems to have a very ironic sense of humor. He also seems to enjoy practical jokes. Why do you think God isn't witty?

09-21-2002, 11:56 AM	#7
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Well, he supposedly sent bears to eat the children who were laughing at one of his prophets' bald head. I'd say this indicates a pronounced lack of good humor. <a href="http://www.geocities.com/ipuprophecy/jobar1.html" target="_blank">The Invisible Pink Unicorn</a>, however, is omnihumorous. Praise, that She is Fun-loving!

09-21-2002, 08:07 PM	#8
Laurentius Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lucky Bucky, Oz Posts: 5,645	AVE I don't remember having ever heard of God being witty. Or of Christians lauding wit. Take the link I gave above, for instance. A lot of (more or less familiar) attributes are given, but wit isn't even hinted at: omnipotence omniscience omnipresence omnibenevolence omnidoxence omniabsence omnimalevolence omnisyllogence omniontologence omniomnience omnicorpulence omnicrapulence omnihilism omnitemperence The idea of this thread occured to me while a friend of mine and I were talking about the qualities of a harmonious personality. I instantly thought of wit. And then I realized that religious model of perfection doesn't include wit. Christians are not supposed to be witty because Jesus himself was not. It is not wit that is praised in the Bible but wisdom. God and the biblical characters expected to make role models never seem to have any sense of humor. Religious writings reveal the traditional anti-profane attitude of the rigorous and intolerant spirits. For them humor and laughter are indecent and blasphemous. Wit has always been the enemy of deeply religious and puritan souls. Plato strongly condemned wit in his Republic. Early Christian apologists (Tertulian etc) militated against the comic and asked for the ban of any kind of theatrical performance. Pascal also found it outrageous. In Moliere’s times writing comedies was likely to trigger the excommunication of the author; actors were banished away from Paris. The free manifestation of wit that we witness today is the consequence of a revolution that didn't even occur to the initial French revolutionaries that everyone take as examples of openmindedness. Nowadays free laughter and the satire on any aspect of reality no longer account for the “corruption of morals, disorder, and economic waste” as J.-J. Rousseau thought wit did. AVE

09-22-2002, 10:30 AM	#10
leonarde Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North America Posts: 1,603	There's one entire book whose topic is the Divine humour. The title is something like "The Humor of Christ" and is by a guy named Trueblood(?). Must be a 30 or 40 year old book. Probably out of print. I haven't seen it in ages but the author makes some interesting observations: irony of the gentle sort seems to be in abundance in the Gospels.........

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