Freethought & Rationalism Archive

LLaurieG · 05-27-2003, 03:10 PM

(Laurie) LadyShea, I like your idea very much of putting photos on the wall of all the dear pets you've had. A similar idea... Seems whenever I take photos, I finish off the roll of film by taking one or two "cute pet" shots. When the prints come back from the lab, I put them in a separate album of "end-of-the-roll cute cat & dog photos." They stay organized in chronological order and I can look in that album whenever I miss them.

Dear Tom, it'll hurt for a long time. I truly feel for your loss. But pets come back to you in dreams. That's their heaven: their everlasting memory in your mind. Photo albums are nice too.

triplew00t · 05-28-2003, 08:28 AM

My dog just died this morning. He was only sick for two days. His liver hemoraged and he died suddenly, no explanation, after going into shock and seizure. I'm just stunned. I don't know how to deal with this loss, as I have never lost anyone, pet or person, nor even been very ill since ive become an agnostic. I keep wanting to call out to God. I just wish I knew how to handle this, especially when I am alone with myself and have no one around to keep my mind occupied...

-Nero

KitKit · 05-28-2003, 08:36 AM

i am SO sorry for your loss. you must be very confused right now. it just doesn't seem fair does it? try taking a walk. sometimes just being outside helps me when i am really really sad. hang in there.

Rushianbeing · 05-28-2003, 10:44 AM

I am so very sorry, triplew00t. I really am. Nothing anyone, human or otherwise, can say can make this pain go away, but you have tons of geniune, caring support right here at this forum. Keep posting, we'll be here.

Rushian

triplew00t · 05-28-2003, 11:57 AM

Part of the problem with this situation, for me, is its sudden and unexpected nature. He was only 5, and in good health. Suddenly, he acts a little sick, and then dies overnight from bleeding out and shock. I can't figure out why he died. It was easier with my other dog and my cats, all of whom grew old, around 10-12, and for whom death was a slow progression out of old age. This dog was in the prime of his life. His early middle age by human standards, just out of his "twenties". And worst of all, my old mental habits came into play, saying maybe this is punishment by God for doubting. But any God who would kill an innocent puppy for my "mistakes" either is not worthy of any admiration, or he is nonexistant, in which case the connection is (as i suspect) purely the result in my mind of past indoctrination (being once a born againer). Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. And Tom, my sympathy to you as well.

In Peace, Nero

CALDONIA · 05-28-2003, 01:07 PM

Tom Sawyer,

When my 15-year old tabby died after a long bout with arthritis of the lower spine, I felt "robbed" and even posted on my refrigerator the line from the epitaph in a pet cemetery: "O heaven will not heaven be unless my cats are there to welcome me."

But despite the sweet sentiment, I do not believe I will see my dear cat(s) (I'm only on my second) in heaven since I do not believe such a country exists.

I finally came to terms with the fact that one should not dwell on the fact that our pets died and left us, but that they once LIVED and we enjoyed their company and they ours. The companionship may have not lasted long (enough) but it did indeed exist, and that is what should be remembered.

So, instead of perpetual mourning about our lost cat, we adopted another from the animal shelter and we still laugh when we "tell her" about the antics of the "sister" she never met (but, frankly, replaced).

Best wishes,

John

wildernesse · 05-28-2003, 01:58 PM

Tom Sawyer and tripleW00t:

I am so, so, sorry for you losing your friends like this. When I think of my Isabelle, who *will* sit in your lap and purr (and drool) whether you like it or not, and who I love so much, with her pretty even orange stripes--and I think that I will most likely live for years without her sweetness (even though she's the one who barfs on the bed and pees in the corner Aaaaah!) I am incredibly sad.

I believe that there is life after death--but it is such a foreign concept and so unknown that I can't trust that it will include the people or pets that I know now; I can't even trust that there is such a plane of existence. But I hope for the end of heartaches and grief, when nothing is bittersweet and no love is lost.

--tibac

fried beef sandwich · 05-28-2003, 08:34 PM

I just checked back today and realized that I had read the subject of the thread wrong - I thought it said, "Are you a bad atheist?" So, I voted, "No, I'm Super" ... Now I realize that it looks like I was trying to hijack the thread, which was not my intention. Anyway, I can't edit my post, hence this new one.

Anyway, Tom Sawyer, I still stand by my "No I'm Super vote" - you're all right. Sincerely wishing that there is an afterlife, and feeling the sense of loss from the death of your pets is all a healthy, normal part of the grieving process. What you're feeling right now is better than some of the alternative reactions to your loss, such as feeling flippant or totally uncaring. It's also good to see that you're also strong enough in your convictions and rational thought to question this intense wistfulness for an afterlife and comfort, etc. I'd say you're actually at a healthy balance right now.

Tom Sawyer · 05-29-2003, 01:38 PM

triplew00t,

I'm sorry for your loss. I know exactly how you feel. When it happens so quickly it makes it a lot harder to handle than if you have time to prepare yourself before they're actually gone.

My cat of fourteen years, Misty, died about a month ago. I was sad, but not as much as when my puppy died since Misty had been getting worse for a while and I'd had time to come to terms with her dying before it actually happened. She wasn't in good shape and we'd been talking about euthanizing her, so her natural death was expected and eased her from a lot of pain.

With my dog, Hime, though, it was such a shock. She was very vivacious and very young. Even when she was injured, we didn't think it was serious and thought she'd get over it after a little stint at the vet's. When she actually died, it hit us like a bulldozer and neither of us were at all prepared for it. The suddenness with which it happened compounded the fact that she died and made the whole thing a lot worse. It sounds like something similar happened to your dog and it must feel as terrible for you as it does for me. I really hope you're doing OK.

On another note, I showed this thread and my other one on the same subject in Sec. Lounge to my wife and she really appreciates all the kind thoughts everyone here has for us. So, she wanted me to say thank you on her behalf as well.

View Poll Results: Am I a bad atheist?
Yes. Bad, nassty, evil atheist	5	6.94%
No. I'm super, thanks for asking	37	51.39%
Neither. Once again, our time is being wasted with meaningless polls	30	41.67%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

05-28-2003, 08:36 AM	#43
KitKit Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: earth Posts: 142	nero i am SO sorry for your loss. you must be very confused right now. it just doesn't seem fair does it? try taking a walk. sometimes just being outside helps me when i am really really sad. hang in there.

05-28-2003, 08:34 PM	#48
fried beef sandwich Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,156	My sincerest apologies I just checked back today and realized that I had read the subject of the thread wrong - I thought it said, "Are you a bad atheist?" So, I voted, "No, I'm Super" ... Now I realize that it looks like I was trying to hijack the thread, which was not my intention. Anyway, I can't edit my post, hence this new one. Anyway, Tom Sawyer, I still stand by my "No I'm Super vote" - you're all right. Sincerely wishing that there is an afterlife, and feeling the sense of loss from the death of your pets is all a healthy, normal part of the grieving process. What you're feeling right now is better than some of the alternative reactions to your loss, such as feeling flippant or totally uncaring. It's also good to see that you're also strong enough in your convictions and rational thought to question this intense wistfulness for an afterlife and comfort, etc. I'd say you're actually at a healthy balance right now.

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05-27-2003, 03:10 PM	#41
LLaurieG Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: So. California Posts: 116	(Laurie) LadyShea, I like your idea very much of putting photos on the wall of all the dear pets you've had. A similar idea... Seems whenever I take photos, I finish off the roll of film by taking one or two "cute pet" shots. When the prints come back from the lab, I put them in a separate album of "end-of-the-roll cute cat & dog photos." They stay organized in chronological order and I can look in that album whenever I miss them. Dear Tom, it'll hurt for a long time. I truly feel for your loss. But pets come back to you in dreams. That's their heaven: their everlasting memory in your mind. Photo albums are nice too.

05-28-2003, 08:28 AM	#42
triplew00t Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 141	My dog just died this morning. He was only sick for two days. His liver hemoraged and he died suddenly, no explanation, after going into shock and seizure. I'm just stunned. I don't know how to deal with this loss, as I have never lost anyone, pet or person, nor even been very ill since ive become an agnostic. I keep wanting to call out to God. I just wish I knew how to handle this, especially when I am alone with myself and have no one around to keep my mind occupied... -Nero

05-28-2003, 10:44 AM	#44
Rushianbeing Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the holler, y'all Posts: 243	I am so very sorry, triplew00t. I really am. Nothing anyone, human or otherwise, can say can make this pain go away, but you have tons of geniune, caring support right here at this forum. Keep posting, we'll be here. Rushian

05-28-2003, 11:57 AM	#45
triplew00t Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 141	Part of the problem with this situation, for me, is its sudden and unexpected nature. He was only 5, and in good health. Suddenly, he acts a little sick, and then dies overnight from bleeding out and shock. I can't figure out why he died. It was easier with my other dog and my cats, all of whom grew old, around 10-12, and for whom death was a slow progression out of old age. This dog was in the prime of his life. His early middle age by human standards, just out of his "twenties". And worst of all, my old mental habits came into play, saying maybe this is punishment by God for doubting. But any God who would kill an innocent puppy for my "mistakes" either is not worthy of any admiration, or he is nonexistant, in which case the connection is (as i suspect) purely the result in my mind of past indoctrination (being once a born againer). Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. And Tom, my sympathy to you as well. In Peace, Nero

05-28-2003, 01:07 PM	#46
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	Tom Sawyer, When my 15-year old tabby died after a long bout with arthritis of the lower spine, I felt "robbed" and even posted on my refrigerator the line from the epitaph in a pet cemetery: "O heaven will not heaven be unless my cats are there to welcome me." But despite the sweet sentiment, I do not believe I will see my dear cat(s) (I'm only on my second) in heaven since I do not believe such a country exists. I finally came to terms with the fact that one should not dwell on the fact that our pets died and left us, but that they once LIVED and we enjoyed their company and they ours. The companionship may have not lasted long (enough) but it did indeed exist, and that is what should be remembered. So, instead of perpetual mourning about our lost cat, we adopted another from the animal shelter and we still laugh when we "tell her" about the antics of the "sister" she never met (but, frankly, replaced). Best wishes, John

05-28-2003, 01:58 PM	#47
wildernesse Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,578	Tom Sawyer and tripleW00t: I am so, so, sorry for you losing your friends like this. When I think of my Isabelle, who will sit in your lap and purr (and drool) whether you like it or not, and who I love so much, with her pretty even orange stripes--and I think that I will most likely live for years without her sweetness (even though she's the one who barfs on the bed and pees in the corner Aaaaah!) I am incredibly sad. I believe that there is life after death--but it is such a foreign concept and so unknown that I can't trust that it will include the people or pets that I know now; I can't even trust that there is such a plane of existence. But I hope for the end of heartaches and grief, when nothing is bittersweet and no love is lost. --tibac

05-29-2003, 01:38 PM	#49
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	triplew00t, I'm sorry for your loss. I know exactly how you feel. When it happens so quickly it makes it a lot harder to handle than if you have time to prepare yourself before they're actually gone. My cat of fourteen years, Misty, died about a month ago. I was sad, but not as much as when my puppy died since Misty had been getting worse for a while and I'd had time to come to terms with her dying before it actually happened. She wasn't in good shape and we'd been talking about euthanizing her, so her natural death was expected and eased her from a lot of pain. With my dog, Hime, though, it was such a shock. She was very vivacious and very young. Even when she was injured, we didn't think it was serious and thought she'd get over it after a little stint at the vet's. When she actually died, it hit us like a bulldozer and neither of us were at all prepared for it. The suddenness with which it happened compounded the fact that she died and made the whole thing a lot worse. It sounds like something similar happened to your dog and it must feel as terrible for you as it does for me. I really hope you're doing OK. On another note, I showed this thread and my other one on the same subject in Sec. Lounge to my wife and she really appreciates all the kind thoughts everyone here has for us. So, she wanted me to say thank you on her behalf as well.

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