pz

Like I said, I presume your clumsiness with English is the root of your problem. There is a simple conditional clause in that comment: "If someone is suffering from clinical depression...". The writer is recognizing that there is a range of possibilities, from "a bit blue" to "depressed", and is not leaping to a diagnosis. In fact, the only person making a conclusion is you, in your assumption that depression is precluded and the guy just needs to "cheer up".

I suggest to you that concluding that there is no problem is a far more serious example of quackery than suggesting that if one is concerned, one ought to check in with a professional therapist.

Sabine Grant

Here we go... PZ is on the personal characterization attack mode. OK.. your arguments are now ignored as part of your lack of tolerance for people who express religious beliefs. I do not support prejudicial attitudes whether from a moderator or anyone.
As to the " false accusation "... does the previous quote I just posted clarify that indeed the medical term " clinical depression " was used or do you wish to pursue your endeavor to claim that it was not used..... I mean PZ you are only convincing yourself right now.
Oh the remark about your charitable perception of my limited ability to communicate in English.....talk about lack of sincerity loaded with contempt.
Well I am not part of your audience anylonger PZ....

Shadowy Man

You are correct. You did not specifically make this claim. Magus55 did:

However, you did say:

And I was saying that I didn't understand how there could be different heavens if there was only one god.

Yes, this subject. Who should I believe about whether the Muslim god and the Christian god are the same god? Is there an "official" Christian or Muslim stance on this?



Yes, which is why I find the whole thing very confusing. I've never been good at telling the difference between all of the Christian sects.

You are correct. In fact, the mind that conceived of the Pledge made no mention of religion in it at all.

pz

The term "clinical depression" was used. Context is everything, though -- should we claim that because you have now used the term "clinical depression" several times, that you are attempting to make an online diagnosis? No. Similarly, there has been no attempt by anyone else to claim that anyone is clinically depressed. Your efforts to pluck a few words out of context certainly don't demonstrate that, especially when going back to the sources shows nothing but commendable caution, and suggestions that if that problem is suspected, the appropriate response is to consult a professional.

What is your complaint here? Are you saying that you understood everyone's words full well, but are wilfully misinterpreting them? If you insist...

Sabine Grant

Where my concern is now... is what Eric thinks and feels over that interresting diversion from the topic at hand as I chose to tell him to cheer up and certainly not as simply as it was claimed. The poor guy came here seeking for guidances as to finding a meaning to life... suddenly he is thrown into the midst of people choosing to be critical of one another rather than focus on encouraging him.

He has to be exposed to a person posting defaming comments about" someone else's reputation which follows her".... and the display of obvious untolerance for religious expression. How is that productive?

I am withdrawing from this thread... some of you will undoubtly find another christian to chew on incessantly. It is time to take my daughter out to lunch.
Aurevoir.....

copernicus

That mind (Francis Bellamy) was a defrocked Baptist minister who was an activist for the Christian Socialists. So religion had not exactly escaped his attention. It just escaped getting mentioned in the pledge.

Radorth

Christianity(largest religion in my area) Cost:

1. Worldview inconsistant with reality.

[Rad: I think it is far more consistent with reality after you read some more history books and stop pretending this generation or the next will be any more righteous]

2. Guilt(some versions more then others)

[Rad: Read Hebrews and 1 John again then, and stay out of church until you see a giant hand in the sky pointing to one]

3. Have to ignore very persausive/logical atheistic arguements

[Rad. Like what? They don't agee on anything except there is no God, evolution is a fact, and Bush is a bad guy. And even that is questionable. What kind of logic is that?]

4. 10% of my money.

[Rad: Keep it all until you decide God returns giving "good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over."]

5. Umm.....?

[Rad: Sorry. Can't think of a thing]

Rad

Daggah

Yes, pi is 3, the foundation of the earth rests on four pillars, and there was a global flood. Oh, wait...

And the rambling about righteousness is just another straw man.

And theists agree on much less - they can't even agree on whether evolution is a fact or not, what god (or how many) exists, and whether Bush is a good guy OR a bad guy. So if you want to continue this line of "reasoning," it hurts theism far more than atheism. Hell, if you restrict theism to a specific brand - like, say, Christianity, you STILL can't find any significant amount of agreement. Atheism is a NEGATIVE belief system - it comes as no surprise that atheists don't agree on much, as atheism isn't a belief.

What kind of logic is that, indeed.

And all of Radorth's sentence here is a non-sequitur and red herring anyway. What does what atheists agree on have to do with persuasive atheist arguments (of which there are many, but Radorth is too close-minded to even consider them)?

Answer: absolutely nothing.

Radorth

But we aren't claiming logic gets us anywhere. In fact "logic" creates as many problems and divisions as it resolves, or there might be some reasonable hope for an atheistic world. "Logic" addresses very few if any issues of the human heart.

These assertions about great divisions among Christians are just that- assertions. Even Catholics and Protestants are now resolved on the doctrine which most divided them: In 1997 they issued a "Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by Faith"

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/jddj.htm

Further, I doubt more than 15% of Christians here would deny the Nicene Creed, a very complete declaration of what Christians believe, written almost 1700 years ago.

Rad

Mad Kally

The cause of clinical depression is mostly unknown. It may or may not have something to do with brain chemicals such as seratonin. They don't really know. BTW, are you a medical professional?