Goliath

Helen,

Fair enough. I don't wish to belabor the point.

This would be incorrect, since my life has meaning.

That's good!

Fair enough.

Sincerely,

Goliath

diana

Good morning, Helen!

I said: But now that we've agreed that repentance means you turn from your sins, wouldn't that mean suicide (i.e., murder) is an indication that you never really repented in the first place, too?

You said: Oh, not at all. I'm well aware of how mental illness takes away one's ability to think things through rationally. It's an illness of the brain.

You assume two things: suicide necessarily implies mental illness and that God let's people off the hook for sinning if they're sick in some way. I come from a very conservative Xn sect, and I recall no stipulation for mental illness built into the system, or mentioned in the bible.

And in the binary system that conservative Christanity is, either a person has a perfect motive for what they do or it counts as 'sin'.

Interesting thought. I question Xns' ability to have perfect motives--particularly since so many of them seem to think that without the promise of heaven/threat of hell we'd live in utter chaos and anarchy. Biblical motives for "correct behavior" would include greed (desire for heaven) and fear (of hell). I suppose doing something entirely out of self-interest (as both of these are) presumably would fit the bill, yes?

Sometimes the number of misconceptions about Christianity that I read here seem overwhelming to me.

Guilty, I'm sure. I know what some people believe and call "Xnty." All too often, I make the mistake of taking the doctrine of a few and saying, "Xns believe this...."

But then, the only thing I think all Xns agree on is Xst risen. All the rest is debateable.

d

HelenM

Hi Diana!

That doesn't surprise me. In my experience Christians vary as to whether they acknowledge there is such a thing as 'mental illness'. Those at my church definitely do. But I run into Christians on the Internet - and sometimes in real life - who seem to think that all depression is some sort of spiritual deficiency. This group probably divides into those who think mentally-ill people are demon-possessed and those who think it's some sort of sin problem (I'd guess you come from the latter type of tradition).

As to suicide implying mental illness; well, ok, how about, it implies a compromised ability to rationally think through one's options - at least most of the time. Someone in chronic and acute physical pain - well, they probably can hardly think anything except "Make it stop!!!" But I think emotional pain similarly cripples one's ability to think rationally in many situations where it's rational to think that the pain is likely to end and then the person could have an enjoyable life.

I'm not sure how far I'd dare push this but I do believe that suicide is often, at least, committed by someone unable to think as you or I would think, about whether it's a good idea or not.

In my experience, Christians admit to having mixed motives (at best!). I suppose they'd agree that there's always a gap between what is possible according to the theology and what actually happens in reality, in the lives of Christians.

I think - being honest - that you could gather all the stats in the world and try to show that in actuality Christians don't behave better than non-Christians and so, where's the evidence of this supposed power from the Holy Spirit?

And conservative Christians would respond with "I believe I have an ability to please God that you don't have, through the Holy Spirit".

And they'd probably use the "not a real Christian" defense in the case of a Christian doing something very egregious.

When people take the position: "But I believe..." you can't make any headway with 'evidence' even if it seems totally compelling and convincing to you.

I didn't mean you in particular...

Anyway, I know I am continually guilty of over-generalizing.

You think they agree on that? Not if you include the liberal Christians!

take care
Helen