DMB

From <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,787075,00.html" target="_blank"> The Guardian:</a>
Edited to correct link

[ September 07, 2002: Message edited by: DMB ]</p>

Starboy

Here, here! The time for agressive religions in the world has come and gone. If they cannot serve man in peace then what good are they?

Starboy

Grumpy

The Pope kills? Now who's claiming "righteousness"? There's plenty to criticize without letting hyperbole get in the way.

Vibr8gKiwi

Absolutely he is responsible for many deaths and is essentially killing by his actions (and inactions). I have a friend who teaches at a catholic school and their "sex education" class isn't allowed to even mention condoms, let alone how they can help prevent getting aids. The only birth control they'e allowed to tell those kids about is the "rhythm method" (oh, and abstinence if you can call that birth control). This really bothers her but she'll lose her job if she mentions condoms. The pope's choice for "birth control" gets kids pregnant and leaves them completely unprotected from aids and other STDs.

The Pope has the power to change the situation, yet he doesn't. So he is responsible.

[ September 07, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]</p>

diana

Hooeee. She's pissed, y'think?

What a letter.

Although I think the nuances of our language is a very weak way to support the idea that we "live parasitically on religion," I think the opposition makes a good point, nonetheless.

I've considered myself an "athiest" for years. Perhaps it's time I switched to "secular humanist," because there are positive things I believe in, in addition to specific things I don't. Perhaps 'tis better to self-identify with the positive rather than the negative.

d

Albion

It isn't a letter, she's a newspaper columnist. She makes some very good points, though. I especially like this:

"Consider instead his accusation that secularists live parasitically on religion, defining ourselves negatively by what they are against. The Godless rationalists are spiritually shrivelled, prune-like souls, dead to wonder, awe or marvel. True, some evolutionary psychologists can be dismally over-determinist. But there is nothing lacking in the scope of human consciousness and imagination, in the human capacity for genius, good or evil with its infinite ability to surprise, invent and renew a fate entirely in human hands. Most insulting is the idea that morality comes only from the rulebook of an external God: the Godless are without moral compass. Yet morality is plainly inborn in every child as soon it cries, "Unfair!" It is this presumptuous arrogance that underpins religion's claim to a monopoly on ethics."

Evil Jello

Nice article except this:

"True, Stalin and Hitler's secular dogmas mimicked religious fervour horribly, but that only adds to the warning against any absolutist belief. "

Hitler was religious:

"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work." - Adolph Hitler

Most people where I live think Hitler was an atheist... I guess they can't imagine A Good Christian(tm) intentionnaly doing harm to someone...............

Grumpy

In the "Hitler was atheist/Christian" debates we've had before, I've been left with the impression that Hitler was basically indifferent to religion, but not above using other people's religious fervor to attain his goals. The fact that it's not an either/or proposition tends to leave people dissatisfied. ("Yes he was! No he wasn't!")

Thor Q. Mada

Grumpy,

If you think the pope doesn't kill, I will take you to Manilla and show you around.

Nikolai

From what I know Hitler was into mysticism, such as old Celtic beliefs (where the swastica symbol came from), yet I have nothing to back that up.