galiel

What she said.

Buffman

galiel

If you are so convinced my "rhetoric" will not resonate, why are you so determined to counter it?

Please try not to fall back on that mode of discussion. "IMHO," it assumes far too much that is not in evidence. Is it possible that ReasonableDoubt might be speaking from a great deal of practical experience? Why not attempt to find out what will work...regardless of the author.

Toto

The Americans United branch in Los Angeles is well organized and seems fairly effective. They sponsor a lot of lectures/get togethers, and do a lot of work with local churches to persuade them that separation is in their best interest. I don't know if I could do the job. It requires a lot of diplomacy, and a lot of pro-religion rhetoric that I don't think I could fake.

If you are interested, email me and I will find the local president's address for you. He might have some pointers on how to get going.

I can imagine that forming a local chapter would be more complicated than just calling AU.

HelenM

The 'insidious conditioning of paternalistic elites'?

No, no, that has nothing to do with my point regardless of whether I am insidiously subconciously conditioned or not...

My point was simply that even young children know that being charming can sometimes be more effective than being offensive.

The irony is that I'm suspecting you have me down as Ms Politically Correct, Non-Offensive and therefore Ineffective Person.

And actually I am quite an activist at heart, when it comes to things I feel strongly about. Or so I believe. The trouble is, when I'm ill I don't know where to stop...

So I have to be careful and all the more so with people who know that sometimes I don't know where to stop.

And when I see people doing things I've done which only annoyed others and made the others entrench, I wince and think "that is very likely to backfire".

I would probably never have registered here were I not an activist-at-heart

But I choose my own causes and how to pursue them

take care
Helen

p.s. example of me being an activist - just to prove it...

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: HelenM ]</p>

Jayhawker Soule

While commenting on this thread I <ol type="1">[*]closely monitored ESPN for insights on the upcoming games,[*]established and submitted final lineups for 3 fantasy football team,[*]monitored the games in progress[*]worked with my wife to prepare an Erev Yom Kippur dinner for family and guests,[*]did some house-cleaning in anticipation of these guests,[*] spent some time helping the sister of a pregnant daughter-in-law prepare a baby shower,[*] paid a number of bills, and[*]slightly restructured my 401k allocation.[/list=a]You seriously over estimate the amount of energy expended on you.

As for the rest, I am both comfortable with, and proud of, my fairly long history of militancy, my current activities, and the lessons continually being learned from both.

sbaii

--------------------------------------------------
I sent AA an email via their website mentioning the concern that they will continue in the tradition of Ms. Ohare and shoot themselves in the foot and generally antagonize everyone. Not to mention giving more ammo to the Xian RIght as they declare themselves the victims. I received a reply sign E. Johnson which says in effect, anyone who doesn't want to hear religion criticized should stay home.

Jayhawker Soule

Working locally around what program, organizing toward what short term ends, deploying under what leadership, utilizing what resources, bound by what discipline, requesting support from what set of organizations, precluding support from what set of organizations, diverting the focus from what concurrent activity based on what criteria?

This is almost certainly false. Any one with experience will tell you that grass-roots activism is an inordinantly high resource activity. There were more than a few instance in the early civil rights movement when sectarian grass-roots activity resulted in a diffused focus, diverted energies, and squandered resources.

I applaud grass-roots participation. I suspect that it will become even more important as the current political situation unfolds. I suggest that the key issues to confront us are not the plight of "Godless Americans" or "the cause of nontheist rights" but broad-based issues of civil liberties and secular society.

When you catalyze you also polarize - personal activism for the sake of activism is eventually destructive. The issue for me is not 'will the March be a futile gesture?'. It is solely whether or not the forces for civil liberties and a secular, democratic society will be strengthen or weakened as a result. In this regard, having the March reduced to a futile gesture is not the worst case scenario.

galiel

I was wondering what that shopping list was doing here.... I hope you didn't start accusing your dinner guests of hyperbole...

Jayhawker Soule

No but, given my "The Exodus is myth" speech, I would have been the most likely target of such an accusation.

excreationist

HelenM:
What message were you "angered" about? From the article it would seem that your problem was that you don't like her anti-trinity beliefs... or maybe you don't like this part "'When I was 254 pounds, are you telling me I wasn't a child of God?' She said: 'That's right.'"
I mean what did you tell all those churches who were sponsoring it?
BTW, in the <a href="http://www.christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=ae633d2c7e3450270ee9e55890fb140 e&daysprune=&forumid=13&x=10&y=5" target="_blank">Christian Forums</a> it seems that many Christians there don't believe in the trinity...