schu

This is an atheist board troll, you are talking about a fairy tale.

orac

Many people give a lot of thought to that, because it's a significant problem for many christians.

Specifically, some christians claim that God has to hide himself and not perform miracles because if he was clearly real then people wouldn't be free to choose whether or not to believe in him.

Then you come along with biblical evidence that they're wrong. (At least christians will listen when you quote the bible.)

There are christians who can't stand people like you

For more information, refer to the various "free will" and "problem of evil" discussions.


If you define "character" as including honesty, decency and compassion then I would happily argue that adversity is not necessary for developing those traits.

I am curious about one thing, though: what is it about "character" that makes even torture and murder acceptable tools for "building" it? Why exactly does a person need "character" more than they need freedom from being burned to death (whether as a tragic accident or a religiously inspired execution)?

You sound like you're making a common christian claim - that God lets us suffer because the benefit is greater than the suffering. If this is your claim, then why can't your God think of a better way to teach his lessons?


Yes, knowledge of the existance of God still wouldn't guarantee worship of that God. Even you seem to accept this without argument. Therefore, the statement "manifestations would not make someone a christian" does not mean "manifestations would not prove that god exists". However, a few good miracles would leave athiests without a leg to stand on - and still allow them the choice of whether or not to worship.

hinduwoman

This is a problem not exlcusive to christians alone. Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs --- all become paranoid when their cherished beliefs are questioned. I think it is a question of dientity.

Sue Sponte

Guess you never gave much thought to the possibility that THESE THINGS YOU MENTION NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED and YOU ARE READING A BOOK WRITTEN BY MEN, NOT A SUPREME BEING.

But that goes without saying.

Infidelettante

Me oh my OBKB, you really have a way with words. But you have the quote wrong. It goes "Until the sentient beings abolish the tools that teach segregation the server and the served can never realize civilization." Glad to help. Call anytime.

JT

Kenny

Defensive? Who's defensive? Why are you atheists accusing us of being defensive all the time? We’re not defensive. I resent being called defensive. In fact, I think this is all part of some big atheist plot…

Family Man

Kenny, you are definitely not a paranoid Christian, which is why you are well-liked around here. But many are, with Radoth being our prime, shining example. And we all know how well-esteemed Radoth is.

Radorth

Grudgemeister #2 has taken to impugning Rad behind his back, to help reduce responses to Rad apparently, which were supposed to stop 8 months ago.

Cheer up FM. I can't post more than an hour or two today. I'm planning a terrorist attack on some atheistic spiders in my basement.

Rad

Radorth

Just quoting the other half of the Bible- you know the one we never hear on II while we listen to long tirades about the big Meanie in the sky, backed up by carefully selected OT quotes.

We can avoid mentioning the OT at all if you like. The NT has a far more compelling cloud of witnesses.

Rad

scombrid

They must have missed when the ACLU filed on behalf of Falwell versus the state of VA when the state sought to limit his church's expansion. They don't like the ACLU because it fight for everybodies freedom, not just theirs.