CannibalCorpseLC

hi, i'm new here, just introducing myself. just to give you all a quick insight i am an atheist, and early this year got really serious with learning about it and the possible existence of god, ect. ect. Right now i am reading George H. Smith's Atheism: The Case Against God (more than halfway done with it) and i think the guy is a frigen genius. i have just 2 questions right now and that is:

1. What do the rest of you think of this book?

2. I was thinking last night, and while i have never read the bible (i've tried but it got so boring through genesis i kept falling asleep, but whenever i hear of a certain passage i check it out) so i may be wrong about this; but if we're all "born in sin", does that include jesus? if so that's kinda ironic considering he's supposedly pure.

Koyaanisqatsi

Welcome! It's a thrill ride.

1. I didn't read it. Sorry.

2. Before you get pummeled by some of the theist cult members who lurk around here, the apologetic on that one is that Jesus was born of a virgin, who herself was immaculately conceived (maybe I've got those mixed up; it's primarily catholocism); which is supposed to mean that Jesus was not "born in sin."

It's, of course, horse shite, but just wanted to give you a head's up on the kind of briar patch you'd be walking into on that one.

Anyway, there is plenty of discussion on that topic 'round these parts and I'm sure others will be along to add their 2 cents.

So, again, welcome and once more into the breach...

Soma

1. I haven't read the book, but have heard about it. Might pick it up myself one day.

2. Jesus was God, perfect and sinless.

CannibalCorpseLC

thanks, u should read it. and good point, i forgot about mary being a virgin. but in Atheism: The Case Against God, George Smith brings out an interesting point. if u have a bible, read Isaiah 7:14. it says (from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures) "Therefor Jehovah himself will give you men a sign: Look! The MAIDEN herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Immanuel"

in this passage, mary is a maiden. it says nothing of her virginity. for all we know she could be a slut impregnated by who knows. Is it possible she's a virgin? yes. is it possible she's not? yes.

Now read Matthew 1:23. "Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Immanuel, which means, when translated, 'With Us Is God.' "

now i'm assuming that since both matthew and isaiah are both writing of the same event, that they were both present when it happened. how is that one understood god of calling mary a maiden, when the other understood god of calling mary a virgin? the definition of maiden is
1. an unmarried girl or woman
2. a virgin.

so it is still possible that they both meant she's a virgin. but how do we know? she could have simply been unmarried, which she was. we have no idea then, what isaiah meant by calling mary a maiden. so what can we condlude from that? maybe there was a mistranslation. or matthew interpreted the word maiden for virgin, when there's a 50/50 chance he could be wrong. we could also conlude that god or isaiah could have chosen a better, less confusing word to identify mary. given that, how can we be sure the rest of the bible isn't as unclear as this passage? how do we know what is truly meant in any of it?

CannibalCorpseLC

oh so now all of a sudden jesus WAS god. i thought he was the son of god. you can't be your own son.

HaysooChreesto!

To me, George H Smith's "Atheism: The Case Against God" should be a book every atheist should own. It is such a damning case against the existence of any god, that any reasonable person who reads it really need look no further.
Smith uses logic and reason to simply toy with theism. And it's not full of technical jargon. It's simple (I'm a big fan of simple) and straightforward. It makes one feel proud to be an atheist.

I think I'm going to crack it open again when I get home tonight.

Welcome CCLC.

Philosoft

Phooey. All you need to do is invoke the magic word: Trinity and *poof* God is three, three, three people in one. I bet if you ask nicely enough, someone will try to explain it to you using the word "essence" or using a clever Cesarian analogy.

Soma

What do you have against the Trinity? It is a sound concept.

Philosoft

Concept? I can't even conceive of the beings allegedly involved, much less the relationship thereof.

HaysooChreesto!

No, no, no. It's like the fingers on a hand. You know, the fingers are part of a hand, but it's still a hand.