Jobar

I think this thread belongs in GRD, so I'm moving it.

Lost433, welcome to II. This is a good place to ask about anything religious; and I assure you that NightWatchman here is not typical of our users. He and Amos are interesting, but not really in to clear and precise answers to simple questions.

NW, your posts are sometimes quite poetic, but this is not a poetry forum. Clear and concise is what we prefer here.

Refused

Lost, why are you a Christian? Just curious, not a flame.

If there wasn't a small blue ball, would you know?

Lost, I understand where you're coming from. I've been there. I went through these same thought processes many years ago. I came to the conclusion that there was NO EVIDENCE for God. (now, gods? that I have to remain agnostic on.. possible, but not probable)

At the time I was feeling the things you are, I realized it all came down to fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of being alone. Fear of letting go of the lifeline.. the lifeline that says "Life after death!"

But what is there to fear? Life is NOW. Life IS. Don't waste your days in existence worrying about non-existence.

I know that's not much of a reply... I could talk about it forever, it's harder for me to write, er, type. My fingers can't keep up with my thoughts.

- Refused

scombrid

Boro Nut?


Given adequate (a shitload that is) shoehorning.

gcameron

As far as we know it is the only planet at all that supports life. But we don't know much.

There are probably hundreds of billions of planets in the universe. If any one of those hundreds of billions has the right mix of elements, and the proper distance from its star, to lead to the development of life, then naturally that is the planet on which living things will develop so they can ask themselves "what are the odds that this planet would support life?"

In the end this gets into the anthropic principle and the fine-tuning argument, which is interesting in itself. It comes down to the question "what are the odds that the universe would support life," although this assumes that there is something special about life (I want to see the Snowflakethropic principle stated, personally), and it is difficult to compute the odds when we don't yet know what determines the deeper nature of our universe and its physics.

However I will give you a nonChristian perspective on the general thrust of your post.

I don't have a flippin' flamin' blue blazin' idea what all this is about. I am not sure that a "God" would make it any clearer, as I am not sure what a "God" is (imagine asking yourself, "if there's no Snoo, what is all of this?"); and anyway if a God does exist, that leaves me to ask what he means, etc. There is no meaning without context and we can always step back one more layer and confront the problem all over again. Uh oh -- I've stepped into a pile of Infinite Regression! Here come the theologists to put me in my place.

I agree the universe is beautiful and prodigiously complex. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I suspect the concept of "beauty" evolved in mammalian minds as a reaction to certain aspects of the pre-existing universe, so I don't think it's anything particularly important that we find the universe beautiful. (It is interesting that there is such a concept as beauty, but that's one for the evolutionary psychologists to take a crack at.) More objectively true is the fact that the universe is prodigiously complex (compared to what, though? the Snooniverse?), and we don't know exactly why that is (though we have developed explanations for discrete parts of the universe's complexity, such as weather patterns and biology). I hope we figure it all out some day; in the meantime, I will plead ignorance. If I resort to a Snoo to explain the complexity, I find myself stepping in Infinite Regression again, I'm afraid (how could such a complex Snoo have come about?).

I think existence is fundamentally absurd. Especially when I take a gander at my phone bill. But then, I think nonexistence would be fundamentally absurd too; but if nothing existed then I would not be here to comment on its absurdity. The whole thing gives me headaches. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to the French Open this year and I will be interested to see if Andre Agassi can win it. That is one of the little absurdities that coalesce to form a mosaic of (illusory) meaning in my existence. Agassi is not God, but he has a mean forehand.

sandlewood

If you are asking “what is the purpose”, then I think you’re already presupposing that there is a creator. As humans, when we build something, we build it for a reason. If I make a bowl out of clay, the purpose may be to hold food or water. So the idea of something having purpose is really only a characteristic of human actions. The word itself declares there was some intelligence behind it.

So why superimpose that onto everything that exists and assume that everything has (or needs) a purpose?

Why does a tree exist? You might say in order to provide shade. But just because a tree does provide shade doesn’t mean that it’s purpose is to provide shade.
Don’t make the mistake of misplacing value. If you begin to play a game of poker, and the dealer deals you four aces and the king of spades on the first hand, you might be surprised. You might think, “Wow, what is the chance of that happening?!” But the truth is that the chance of getting that hand is exactly the same as getting any other particular hand. It’s just that we place a particular value on four aces and a king.

So whether we think the universe is beautiful or not should have nothing to do with the chance of it existing. We really don’t know what the odds are of the universe existing since we only have one universe.

Nightwatchman, no doubt you are entertaining. I clicked on www.hiddenmeanings.com and could not even make it past the first sentence I saw:
If crop circles are made in the middle of the night by high school kids pulling a prank, then what does it matter what they mean?

Shadowy Man

I will answer only this part of your original post. The main elements we see here on Earth that make life possible are hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen. These elements happen to be the most common elements in the universe and we see them everywhere we look. From other planets, to comets, to interstellar clouds, to stars, to other galaxies, quasars, etc. we see those elements, so there is nothing special about those being here.

The fact that life is made out of the most common elements in the universe suggests that given the right conditions life should arise naturally. We should not be surprised to see life in other places in the universe.

himynameisPwn

lost, I'd say, go through the library on this site, think about the questions yourself, come to your own conclusions.

Alright, life is anything that carries out the five basic functions. You know, reproduction, respiration, etc.

The universe is everything, including the laws it follows(physics) and its composition(chemistry).

The universe is so big that its size outweighed the probability that life wouldn't occur.

If earth didnt have the right elements, we wouldn't be here to discuss it, this isn't the only planet in the universe, so your question is irrelevant compared to the size of the universe. Ever hear the quote "There are more stars than sand on every beach on earth."? Imagine the possibility for life and consider that.

Inteligence evolved from early life because inteligence prospers, 6 billion members of the human race alive isn't all that bad. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and probably evolved as an instinct. Surely, we think feces is disgusting because, if we thought it beautiful, it wouldn't be an evolutionary advantage? Likewise, I think females are beautiful, because I'm a male and propagation of the race is also a key to evolution.

himynameisPwn

Night, please post the biblical reference to the tribe of light.

Speed of light

Approx 186,322mph.

Anyway, did the tribe of light specify the medium they travel through? Did they specify the unit? Really, its nothing more than coincidence especially considering MOST of the world uses the metric system. I guess god only wanted only to make it apparent to citizens of the modern US.



Also, are we to trust the bible on everything science? Is Pi really 3? Is the earth really flat? Were we created in 6 days with 1 day of rest? I realize you can rationalize this away as metaphor, but anything can mean anything when you interpret it to death. If we cannot take the bible as literal it has NO meaning, especially if you claim it useful to science. Most technical texts I've read are pretty direct and less metaphorical.

Incorrect, gravity, magnetic, nurclear, etc. You have a horrible understanding of physics to claim this.

Ok, prove this claim. Id LOVE to see this proof. BTW, it can also be a chemical imbalance causing such symptoms.

The previous statement has no basis in reality. Seriously, how old are you? Whats your science background? Im taking a basic physics course and I can tell you, a high school physics course will tell you that you are completely WRONG. Your claims are ridiculous and have no proof.

So your saying, that prayer will fix my TV? Will prayer give me the answer to my test on Kirchoffs laws?

Never heard this before, and it doesn't sound very truthful to me. Firstly, let me say I don't know anything about hebrew, but I could hazard a guess that they didn't know diddly sqaut about electric circuits and that they wouldn't name a town after something they don't know, and probably wouldn't have a word for something non-existant. Pure speculation on my part. Did they have words for capacitors and the like?

This can't be for real.

Marduk

"If there's no God, what is all of this? "


Even if there is a God what is all this about?

Some things about religion I can understand but not this one, even if there is a God what's the point of all this? to provide him with entertainment? to keep him company somehow? would a being that has the capability to create a universe this big find even slight amusement or comfort from talking apes on a small distant galaxy?
Religion really blows it with the 'why' business.

NightWatchman

Oh yes it is