Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vicar Philip · 12-26-2002, 07:37 PM

Two names:

Galileo and Bruno

Galileo was imprisoned in his own home for daring to have support for the work of Copernicus.

Bruno was burned at the stake for going even beyond Copernican theories, including other (gasp!) solar systems besides our own.

Had the Catholic church had its way, we'd still believe the Earth was the center of the Universe and flat as a damn pancake.

Yes, the Catholic church has managed to do some good deeds. So has every other church in history, every other group of people, and every other organization (even those including atheists!).

Just because the Catholic church proclaims itself to be the "One True Church" TM doesn't make it any more special than any other branch of Christianity.

12-26-2002, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by openeyes
Amos wrote

If he is implying that Dr. Rick would feel differently had he been raised in the "true" church, I think Amos is off-track.

I was raised Catholic and liked the things Dr. Rick said. It seems that many "free-thinkers" were raised Catholic, perhaps even a higher percentage then would be expected from the general population. Many of us fell away long before the current scandals, and not because of any specific wrong-doing aimed at us personally, but because we realized the whole thing was an elaborate house of cards.

Yes I was, and I have noticed that many freethinkers here are ex-Catholics. This does surprise me because where I was raised Catholics would just quit going to Church and very few would actually know what relgion was all about. For sure, none would be angry with the Church because it never did them any harm. We had Catholic schools only until grade 6 and knew very little about the religion itself but were exposed to all of its mysteries.

Bree · 12-26-2002, 10:38 PM

Okay, I'll bite:

What are the "mysteries" of the Church?

12-26-2002, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicar Philip
Had the Catholic church had its way, we'd still believe the Earth was the center of the Universe and flat as a damn pancake.

Religion never concerns itself with the origen of planets or centre of the universe. For the redeemed man not just the earth but he himself is the centre of the universe. This means that he has a free will and is no longer moved by his own external impulses.

Bree · 12-26-2002, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
Religion never concerns itself with the origen of planets or centre of the universe.

Eh? But the Catholic Church did concern itself with the centre of the universe - if it didn't care, it wouldn't have treated Galileo the way that it did.

Are you saying that the Catholic Church isn't a religion? Or am I missing something?

12-26-2002, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree
Okay, I'll bite:

What are the "mysteries" of the Church?

Hundreds upon hundreds and each icon has its own mystery to tell or they would not be icons. All of the prayers are mysteries, the sacraments, the mass, calender year, rosary, and I cannot think of anything the Church does/did that does not have a mysterious truth behind it. You saw my story on ST. Nicholas and there is a strory to tell about everything they do (except what some priests do on their own, to be sure).

The main mystery is the consecration of bread and wine, which is a reality and not just a symbol.

12-26-2002, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree

Eh? But the Catholic Church did concern itself with the centre of the universe - if it didn't care, it wouldn't have treated Galileo the way that it did.

Are you saying that the Catholic Church isn't a religion? Or am I missing something?

Yes, if redemption is a reality, and Catholics do enter heaven where they become the centre of the universe as I stated above, how can the church hold that the sun is the centre of the universe and so discredit the value of Free Will? To be the centre of the universe means to be in charge of your own destiny. To be infallible means to be in charge of your own desitiny. Just as the Church is infallible so is the Freeman infallible because he has the mind of God (and be reminded here that this is our mandate in the bible).

Remember here that I hold that the entire bible is metaphor.

Infinity Lover · 12-27-2002, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
Remember here that I hold that the entire bible is metaphor.

I'm inclined to think that the people who wrote it at the time took it quite litteral.

12-27-2002, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Infinity Lover
I'm inclined to think that the people who wrote it at the time took it quite litteral.

The mythmakers took it literal? A myth is a story that describes a non-rational event such as metamorphosis and that is what the whole bible/gospels is all about. Since there are no non-conventional words, parables and metaphors are used to describe the event and the effective forces that lead to such an event are personified to make it understandable. lol.

Vicar Philip · 12-27-2002, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos
Remember here that I hold that the entire bible is metaphor.

Amos,

While I might agree that parts of the bible could be interpreted as metaphors, I think generalizing and stating the entire bible is metaphor is false.

For example, how could you characterize the boring lists of names in 1 Chronicles as a "metaphor?" Metaphor for what?

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12-26-2002, 07:37 PM	#31
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	Two names: Galileo and Bruno Galileo was imprisoned in his own home for daring to have support for the work of Copernicus. Bruno was burned at the stake for going even beyond Copernican theories, including other (gasp!) solar systems besides our own. Had the Catholic church had its way, we'd still believe the Earth was the center of the Universe and flat as a damn pancake. Yes, the Catholic church has managed to do some good deeds. So has every other church in history, every other group of people, and every other organization (even those including atheists!). Just because the Catholic church proclaims itself to be the "One True Church" TM doesn't make it any more special than any other branch of Christianity.

12-26-2002, 10:38 PM	#33
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Okay, I'll bite: What are the "mysteries" of the Church?

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