Herbert Von Karajan

Hi, I'm new here and since loads of you are specialists in Christian critique, I have some questions to ask about "Love Thy Enemy" morality so emphasized in the Bible.

Does anyone finds it objectionable that the most notable flaw is that Mankind must forgive even rapists who took their virginity while Jehovah sends sinners to Hell for eternity (or we call that hypocrisy)? It is one demanding ideology that very, very few could follow. If Hitler is alive and our whole family is slaughtered by him, I suppose we have to swallow our anger just to be safe in Heaven =P

I also notice that this ideology has devastating effect on a Christian's mental health as one is taught to "accept that it is God's will and move on". A "true" Christian will follow faithfully to his/her God's orders, but in the process, trauma and stress accumulates because that Christian is suppressing him/herself too much. Also, this argubly defeats the fairness of an Omnipotent deity so boasted because a Christian who gets raped by her brothers, go to Heaven as equally as a Christian who only reaches sermon in church every Sunday.

Comments and usual brickbats at Christian dogma welcomed.

HelenM

This seems like it might fit better in General Religious Discussions, to me...(if so the moderators will move it for you).

Anyway, I don't think Christian beliefs necessarily have a bad effect on the mental health of Christians.

It depends on what the specific beliefs are and how they are interpreted and applied.

Some people find it very healing that through their Christian beliefs they are able to forgive others. Storing up anger inside oneself can have detrimental effects on one's health.

I know there are people who would say Christianity had a very detrimental effect on their mental health and I respect that as their experience. But I know others who say the opposite.

Helen

Tom Sawyer

In terms of the forgiveness bit, I think the idea behind that is that it is God's place to judge people's behaviour, not man's. While a good Christian should forgive the sins of others, it is the place of the Chritian God to judge those sins. When someone rapes you, or commits any other kind of sin, you should not judge him yourself, but leave that to God. So although God says to love and forgive everyone, His condemning them to an eternity of pain and torture is quite consistent with that because He's God and you're not. If you accept that He makes bad things happen for a reason and everything will work out in the end if you just have faith and follow all his rules (even the ones that contradict each other) then it will all be OK.

I think that's the general reasoning behind the whole idea of man having to forgive sins and God not having to follow that same rule. Please don't pick apart the logical inconsistencies in the argument, they're the fault of religion, not me.

Jamie_L

In general, this is probably not a threat to the mental health of Christians, as it seems few Christians actually adhere to this doctrine in the strict way you suggest.

Jamie

Mageth

To my understanding, while xianity may require one to "forgive those who trespass against you", it does support earthly justice (judgment and punsishment for crimes), e.g. a rapist paying the criminal penalties for his crimes.

That said, carrying hatred for someone all one's life can only harm you, not the object of the hate. Getting over hatred for one who has wronged you can have significant benefits to one's mental/emotional well being. So it's good advice for all (and it is not a doctrine that is unique to the xian religion, contrary to what many xians say, BTW), although it can be hard to apply. (As Jamie_L says, many xians don't adhere strictly to this doctrine).

The Other Michael

GRD looks to be a better fit for this thread.

cheers,
Michael
MF&P Moderator, First Class

Debbie T

Helen I think that there are Christians who believe that you must forgive others right away. I think this can be damaging because until a person themselves have healed from what others have done to them, forgiving to soon can have adverse affect. For me when I forgave my father for his abuse I couldn't until I healed myself and was able to understand the broken part of my father that caused him to be an abuser.

The other problem I see is the forgive and forget attitude. Forgetting can be damaging as it can also set the person up for more abuse or denial of it. This is not a way to heal. I am not talking small transgessions here though.

HelenM

I understand what you're saying.

The Christians I know who teach about forgiveness teach that it's a process and it doesn't mean denying that something awful was done to you.

But I wouldn't be surprised to hear that people suffer through being told to forgive and not having it properly explained what that does and doesn't mean.

Helen

seebs

I don't see how it's harmful to me to forgive people.

There's a story I heard once which I rather liked. A couple of monks (Buddhist, I think) who were forbidden to touch women were travelling, and they came to a stream. The bridge had washed out, and a woman was looking at it in distress. One of the monks offered to carry her across the stream. They went on their way, and some time later, the second monk asked the first how he could have touched a woman, like that, and the first replied "I dropped her by the side of the river; why are you still carrying her?"

When I don't forgive people, *I'm* the one preserving the injustice. The person who hurt me could be long dead, and *I'd* still be suffering.

Then again, look at the other side. Have you ever done something that hurt someone, and later regretted it? If so, would you be happier if they forgave you, or if they held a grudge?

I notice that you focus on forgiveness for exceptionally harmful things... but really, if it's a bad idea to forgive rape, it should be a bad thing to forgive a half-joking insult. I see no reason for which this should be different in moral quality.

catman

Yes Herbert--what did you mean by:

I have found that christians aren't very forgiving at all--so maybe you can explain their behavior to me. I cannot explain why they should feel so traumatized by the process.

Any insight here by anyone would be appriciated.

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: catman ]</p>