christ-on-a-stick

*chokes on Diet Coke*

I am having a difficult time believing that you actually just wrote that.

Must...calm....down....before composing longer reply...

But chew on this in the meantime... I guess since however-many-years ago we thought epileptics were just demon-possessed, that epilepsy doesn't exist? Do you not "believe in" epilepsy?

I'll be back with more later.

Pseudonymph

ok, ok. Let me rephrase that.

Back then, when people were depressed, people didnt turn to pills and things like that. They maybe went to a therapist, and dealt with it. My point is, back then, they were just "upset"
but now days they would be called "depressed."
Depression had always existed, but the terms to define it and treat it are fairly new. And unecessary, in my opinion. Humans have survived without prozac, and will continue to do so.

Viti

Just a note on Ecstasy...the MDMA is not what causes the "touchy feely" part of the high...MDMA triggers your brain to release all of its stored seratonin in a big rush which is where the tactile and euphoric feelings come from, the remaining high is simply speed. Once your seratonin is depleted, it takes some time for your body to replenish it (at least a week)...this is why people who do it too often usually only feel speedy.

I'm not a nerd, I just did a bit of research before trying it (I don't like putting stuff in my body without some knowledge of what is and does)

christ-on-a-stick

LadyShea,

Good point on how the MDMA actually works. I too did some "research" on it before doing it the first time (I have insatiable curiosity) because I wanted to know what the risks/effects of use were, if/how they could be minimized, etc. Because of the fact that prolonged FREQUENT use can end up impeding the body's future seratonin production, I decided I would not take it more than once every three months on average. Subsequently (in the past three years) I have experienced no health or pyschological problems due to the occasional use and additional preventative measures (testing the pills for purity, staying extremely hydrated and not mixing with other substances).

Anyway, I think this is a perfect example of the difference between use and abuse, as well as an example of how EDUCATION about a drug can lead someone to make informed decisions. Whenever I see a Dateline-type special about some teenager od'ing and dying on E, although it is obviously sad, it does spring to mind that that individual probably DIDN'T have adequate information about the drug and risk-reduction methods, because all they ever heard was "Just Say No".

P.S. I have a question about LSD from those who have used it (I've never tried it), should I open a different topic?

christ-on-a-stick

Nice backpedal

But seriously... first of all, what about the many who undoubtedly were NOT helped (enough) by therapy alone and ended up a) deeply miserable their whole lives b) killing themselves??? You still haven't adequately explained why a treatment in pharmaceutical form is "bad" or "wrong".

How about this...

"Humans have survived without penicillin, and will continue to do so".

"Humans have survived without injectable insulin (for diabetics) and will continue to do so".

"Humans have survived without surgical anesthetic and will continue to do so".

The list could go on and on...

Secondly, while in the "backpedal" you only addressed depression, I believe your original statement referred to "manic depression" implying that "30 years ago it didn't exist".

Hmmm... try telling that to Kay Redfield Jamison, Professor of Psychiatry at the John Hopkins School of Medicine AND herself manic-depressive. (She wrote the very interesting book An Unquiet Mind, I highly reccomend BTW). But of course you know more than her or the rest of the doctors and scientists who have been studying it for decades? Manic depression (also known as bipolar disorder) HAS been around for many, many more than 30 years. I'm not trying to be vitrolic here, but I am truly curious as to whether you understand the difference between clinical depression and manic depression, OR whether you have an understanding of either of them and how certain pharmaceuticals work to treat them.

Seriously, are you basing your opinions on this on any kind of knowledge or education or just how it "seems" to you?

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: christ-on-a-stick ]</p>

Megatron

christ-on-a-stick:
RE: I have a question about LSD from those who have used it (I've never tried it), should I open a different topic?

Yes, absolutely.. start a topic in Misc Discussions (to guarantee maximum visibility) and you'll undoubtedly get all the information you could ever want/need about LSD... and I'll definitely throw in my 2 cents...

Megatron

OK, guys.. I'm really too tired to post a real response to this thread just yet... but I promise I'm not abandoning it. I'll make some replies to some specific points in the morning... I've been awake for 20 hours and it's getting difficult to keep my eyes open...

Pseudonymph

thanks

ok seriously, you make some good points. I guess my main points are

1. I simply disagree with antidepressants. I see no difference between this and smkoking a joint to relieve anxiety. Lots of people think thats ok and thats cool. But I dont.

2. antidepressants are being abused by many people. they are being prescrobed for people in lieu of "real" treatment.

3. You make a good point as to how insulin etc are all good contributors to man. I do not think prozac et al can be classified in that group, however. Prozac is a mind altering substance, insulin and other medicines do a different type of job.

Just my observations, and info I learned in pysch and other life experiences

Bree

You have the wrong idea about antidepressants. They do not merely "relieve anxiety" - when prescribed and used correctly they correct an imbalance in the brain. I'm sorry, but pot (no matter how wonderful it is) does not correct this kind of biological problem.

I needed antidepressants for two years. If I had not had these "drugs" to balance my brain out, I'd probably be dead. They're not for everyone, granted - but for some people, they really work.

Pomp

SirenSpeak,

Others are carrying on the discussion, and I'm not all that interested anyway, so i'm going to make my response short.

PB...sorry I didnt mean to make it sound as if I was "better" or that everyone should feel as I do, believe me, I know that isnt the case.

I know you weren't being arrogant. I was just sort of prompting you to expand on your argument.

You make some good points about social situations being easier if everyones drinking...

I didn't actually consider those "points" at all, as I wasn't presenting an argument. You asked why people like to use mind-altering substances and I told you why I, personally, like to use one such substance on occaision.

I just figure, if people are going to see me as weird or stupid for not drinking,

I certainly don't hold that opinion of you. I've been there. I was quite Puritanical about drinking at one point, realized I had no good reason to be, moved rather quickly through the it's-fun-to-be-drunk-and-stupid phase, and settled into social-drinking-on-occaision. Whatever works for you.