Freethought & Rationalism Archive

fwh · 06-24-2002, 12:03 PM

We have gained freedom from theism in science which was a needed and desirable end. I have several questions about the PROCESS used to bring about this freedom. a) How was this actually brought about historically speaking? (a critical review) b) Was this process completed in a rational and logical manner? c)What has been the cost of gaining our freedom in such a manner?

Please note,I wish not to focus on the freedom gained but rather the MEANS by which it was accomplished and the subsequent effect on our culture's present and future endeavors. Your comments.

tronvillain · 06-24-2002, 01:38 PM

A)Well, "freedom" from theism in science probably came when people realized that "God did it" isn't much of an explanation, especially if you haven't looked for another explanation, and when they stopped accepting arguments from religious authority.
B)Yes.
C)Nothing.

fwh · 06-24-2002, 02:18 PM

Tronvillain
Thanks for responding

you said:
A)Well, "freedom" from theism in science probably came when people realized that "God did it" isn't much of an explanation, especially if you haven't looked for another explanation, and when they stopped accepting arguments from religious authority

me:
Obviously the term "God did it" is an unsatisfactory knowledge claim. What then is the satisfactory knowledge claim by modern theorists replacing it?

tronvillain · 06-24-2002, 07:38 PM

There is no one knowledge claim - explanations are unique to what is to be explained. Do I actually have to compile a huge list of scientific theories for you?

Secular Pinoy · 06-26-2002, 05:20 AM

I think fwh is asking what criteria do we have for saying that a knowledge claim is satisfactory. (Satisfactory for whom, I might ask?)

abe smith · 06-26-2002, 05:31 AM

"Theistic science" [cf "theology" = what all those SJs and other selfstyled "theologists" like to be asserting ] --- "theistic science" is about as oxyMORONIC as any pair of words can be. Everything that the manmade term "science" implicits nowadays ought to exclude everything that "theology" claims to be about..... This rant is not apposite to the thread-at -hand; the phrase has set my teeth on edge.

tronvillain · 06-26-2002, 09:59 AM

For science to even get started, people have to want more of an explanation than "God did it" so it's pretty much always been free of theism in that sense. Someone may have simply wondered how God did it or been investigating what God did, but that amounts to simply doing science, not "theistic science" since in every case you can leave God out of the picture.

06-24-2002, 12:03 PM	#1
fwh Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Centralia, Il. Posts: 76	freedom from theistic science We have gained freedom from theism in science which was a needed and desirable end. I have several questions about the PROCESS used to bring about this freedom. a) How was this actually brought about historically speaking? (a critical review) b) Was this process completed in a rational and logical manner? c)What has been the cost of gaining our freedom in such a manner? Please note,I wish not to focus on the freedom gained but rather the MEANS by which it was accomplished and the subsequent effect on our culture's present and future endeavors. Your comments.

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06-24-2002, 01:38 PM	#2
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	A)Well, "freedom" from theism in science probably came when people realized that "God did it" isn't much of an explanation, especially if you haven't looked for another explanation, and when they stopped accepting arguments from religious authority. B)Yes. C)Nothing.

06-24-2002, 02:18 PM	#3
fwh Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Centralia, Il. Posts: 76	Tronvillain Thanks for responding you said: A)Well, "freedom" from theism in science probably came when people realized that "God did it" isn't much of an explanation, especially if you haven't looked for another explanation, and when they stopped accepting arguments from religious authority me: Obviously the term "God did it" is an unsatisfactory knowledge claim. What then is the satisfactory knowledge claim by modern theorists replacing it?

06-24-2002, 07:38 PM	#4
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	There is no one knowledge claim - explanations are unique to what is to be explained. Do I actually have to compile a huge list of scientific theories for you?

06-26-2002, 05:20 AM	#5
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	I think fwh is asking what criteria do we have for saying that a knowledge claim is satisfactory. (Satisfactory for whom, I might ask?)

06-26-2002, 05:31 AM	#6
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	"Theistic science" [cf "theology" = what all those SJs and other selfstyled "theologists" like to be asserting ] --- "theistic science" is about as oxyMORONIC as any pair of words can be. Everything that the manmade term "science" implicits nowadays ought to exclude everything that "theology" claims to be about..... This rant is not apposite to the thread-at -hand; the phrase has set my teeth on edge.

06-26-2002, 09:59 AM	#7
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	For science to even get started, people have to want more of an explanation than "God did it" so it's pretty much always been free of theism in that sense. Someone may have simply wondered how God did it or been investigating what God did, but that amounts to simply doing science, not "theistic science" since in every case you can leave God out of the picture.

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