Ojuice5001

<a href="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/civilization/cc0034.html" target="_blank">Ecumenical Jihad</a>
<a href="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/CULTURE.HTM" target="_blank">How to Win the Culture War</a>

These articles by Peter Kreeft are great ones. At one time I was repelled by the Christian ideas of a contest between gods (Yahweh and Satan) for the fate of the world, but then I came to realize that's just because Christians don't believe in Jupiter, or any gods whom a pagan would want to win. Once you add the Roman pantheon and the rest to the mix, I think this kind of worldview is quite rational. The only problem with the Christian version is that Christians believe there are only two sides and one of them is completely evil; other than that, I think it's a great idea for humans to make sure the right gods prevail--without violence of course.

So what do you guys think of Kreeft's views?

[ November 29, 2002: Message edited by: Ojuice5001 ]</p>

Eudaimonist

I think he writes off the possibility of a positive secular morality too quickly. His "without religion, no morality" bias is clear.

However, this is an amazing quote:

I wonder how often this attitude translates into Catholic goodwill towards atheists and agnostics.

I wonder if you agree with the spirit of the following quote:

I personally think this guy's views are medieval. Wars are not fought between gods, but between ideologies, whether theological or philosophical. Sure, we could use more "saints" in the world, but let's not pretend that they are fighting literal demons.

Ojuice5001

Peter Kreeft is one of my favorite writers; it's a travesty that his books, other than the Handbook of Christian Apologetics, are hard to find. But he's put a lot on the Web, so I can hazard a guess about what he thinks of atheists.

Basically, atheists are either misinformed or subjectivist. The misinformed ones can easily be morally good, and are intellectually honest. The other category consists mostly of atheists who don't want to acknowledge God's moral rules (he's not one of those Christians who thinks they all are), and they are subjectivists with regard to morality and often truth. There are a lot of atheists in the first category, but the growth of atheism is accounted for by subjectivists.

It is something of an unanswered question for me how much allegiance I owe the gods. I would say it is probably about as much as an strong patriot feels he owes to his country. ("Render unto Caesar that which is Caeser's, and render unto God what is Caeser's"? ) I think my patron goddess Postverta wants me to be either a kid who never grows up (in this she succeeds to a large extent), or else become a farmer. I basically think Postverta has the right only to ask these things, not to demand them if I really want to do otherwise (as is, on balance, the case with the farmer thing). Of course, these are things she wants for herself, not to win the war against Yahweh and the atheist-favoring gods.

As you know, I think it's a good thing to believe that there are gods behind earthly conflicts. He's a very quotational writer, and to judge from his quotes, he most admires Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Chesterton, and Lewis (and Jesus and Paul, of course). He even writes "Socratic" dialogues in which Socrates comes to the present day, converts to Kreeft's kind of Christianity, and debates modernizing thinkers. Kreeft makes this work rather well, though Socrates must have rolled over in his grave.