Vicar Philip

LOL! That's exactly what I said to her! That's too funny.

Anyway, my wife and I talked a little bit more about it after that and I do wonder if part of this stems from our fights. Odd that it's taken so long for him to start expressing these feelings, if that's truly what's going on. I plan to talk to him tonight and find out what's really going on.

Proxima Centauri

I'm sorry for your son. If he is upset because of the trouble at home 'putting the fear of dad into him' will add to his distress.
Try, in the first instance, to discuss in a kind way with your son what is wrong. Mention the difficulties with your son to your councillor. Ask your councillor if she feels the fights between you and your wife could have caused your son's bad behaviour.
You are alreadlly going to church and acting untrue to yourself. Your wife now requires you to be further untrue to yourself and pretend to pray to 'God' without belief. Consider staying away from Church next Sunday unless your wife respects your religious position better.
you are not requiring her to go to atheist meetings. Why should she require you to go to church.

Rhea

I don't think your wife's request is going to get her what she really wants.

If she wants Loving God instilled in the boy, she should have people who think god is loving be the ones to do the talking. To do otherwise is to undermine her own wishes.

I'd tell her, "honey, I'm not that good an actor. I don't think you want me to do that. He'll see through me in a heartbeat and that is not what you want. Honest. He'll see my real feelings and you will have shot yourself in the foot. I won't let you do that to yourself."

It's like people who want teacher-led prayer in school. It's crazy, they'll trust their kids' religious instruction to ANYONE. I don't understand it.

Treacle Worshipper

I don't think it's too strange. If it is caused by the recent tension between you and your wife, it's likely that your son has also noticed that things seem to be going better now. It is therefore "safe" for him to kick off, because now he's not worrying all the time about you two splitting up & he knows you're going to be around to hear him being annoyed about what you just put him through.
It's like yelling at someone when they come in late because you were worried about where they were and are relieved to see they're ok - a release of tension.
Of course, it could be something totally other than this. I hope your talk with him goes well.
Good luck in convincing your wife that praying with him is not the right thing for you to do. If she wants him raised "godly", she should do it herself. I don't think anyone would think an atheist would do a better job than a believer in that area!
Best Wishes,
TW

HelenM

VP,

I'd hope that if you spent time with your son you might get to the heart of what's bothering him. Although, maybe it's not as easy to get adolescents to share what's going on with them as it is with younger children.

I think it would be best if you could work out with your wife that you will do all you can to help your son, but she needs to let you do it your way. And in turn, she can do all she can to help, in her way.

Anyway, I hope you get to have the talk you want to tonight and that it's productive.

Helen

Albion

The eldest son is also a non-theist, isn't he? And he knows what you think about religion, right? (dredging around in the old memory banks here...) So how on earth is it going to help him for his dad to start lying to him when he knows that's what's happening? Sounds as if he's been stressed enough already with what's been going on; having a father who can't be trusted to tell a coherent story from one day to the next isn't going to help matters.

Seems to me that all this battling about religion and the bad feelings and uncertainties and assorted threats of divorce and leaving home etc etc have destabilised the poor chap's life enough already. Why on earth would it help him now for his dad to start lying to him?

I wonder what your wife would say if you demanded that she be the one to give in about presenting a united front and that she reinforce your message that we're responsible for our own lives and need to get through our problems without divine assistance. Strikes me as she'd think it was an incredibly unreasonable thing to ask. And yet that's what she's doing.

Probably a bit of peace and stability is what's called for here. And that won't happen while your wife keeps on at you to change.

BadBadBad

Yeah Vicar,

She wants you to tell your kid he needs to pray and turn his problems over to God. What a joke!

I don't let my wife take my kids to church anymore, but she has them enrolled in a fundie ballet "ministry." She also is dumping a bunch of crap in their gullable minds ... to inform them, educate them, and harden them against the influence of Satan that might come from their dad. (We don't actually admit that, but we just let that go unsaid). They're coming up to me saying things like Praise Jesus and glory to God!. It's shocking that something so revolting can come out of the mouth of such an innocent and beautiful little girl!

Oh boy, but when she gets a whiff of anything I might say to them, look out! Oh the whacky world of living with a fundie!

Proxima Centauri

[COLOR=green]In some parts of the United States there seems to be an unwritten rule that atheists are not allowed to have self respect or the respect of other people. Part of this is the trash like, 'If you don't believe in God you must be immoral.' Anothler part is the pressure on you to attend church and to conform to progressively more and more of Christianity without believing. You've had to resist pressure to attend bible classes. Now it is hoped you will go through the motions of praying without belief.

Why is it important that you go through the motions of praying? Because that way you see yourself as a hypocrit and lose self respect. Because that way your son sees you as a hypocrit and loses respect for you. That way you stop being an atheist role model respefcted by your son and he is less likely to deconvert.
Going to church should not be more that a temporary compromize. Prtennding to pray would be going much too far.[\COLOR]

jmborr

Hi Vicar Philip,

If your couple problems are responsible for your
son's behaviour, then I don't see why you only should be the one to talk. It's better if you do it together. I think that he seeing you together will be very important.
And one thing: plan in advance what are you going to say. If you improvise you might end up contradicting yourselves in front of him.

On another level, I think your wife should not be
too anxious if your son is not a christian right now, and if he does not have the chance to know about Jesus or God from his father. The positive view is that becoming a christian is a personal decision, and your son right now has the opportunity to see both sides of the matter. Whatever he chooses, he will do it on an informed basis.

I think that going to church for her is very loving. I did the same with my wife when I was not a christian.

Proxima Centauri

I'm sorry for you, jmborr.

Quote:

I think that going to church for her is very loving. I did the same with my wife when I was not a christian.

Did that Church brainwash you into becoming a christian?