rainbow walking

Koy is correct. To know something before it happens means it had to be programmed to happen that way. If God didn't program it so, in order to foreknow it, then who did?

MadMordigan

One could know what is going to happen without causing it to happen.

No, but if the same entity was also omnipotent, then anything that happened WOULD be a result of its will.

Tercel

I note that all responses to the original post so far seem to have shared the basic assumption that repentence after death is impossible.
If that assumption was to be challenged it would seem to me that the original question along with most of the subsequent bickering is pointless.

Biblical challenges to this point would seem to include:
Paul's preaching to the Athenians as recorded in Acts 17 says "God has overlooked the times when people did not know him".
Peter says that "the Good News was preached also to the dead" (1 Peter 4:5).
And if Christ died for all, (Romans 5:18,19; 2 Cor 5:14,15,19; 1 John 2:2 et al) then clearly people who die never hearing the message about Christ must also have the potential to benefit from his death.

[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Tercel ]</p>

G B Mayes

Doc58:

Doc, I never mentioned Calvin nor did I say I didn't believe in free will.

Regarding "By divine prerogative God, in the O.T.,
etc,": You list a number of apparent injustices that God perpetrated. Yes, I believe by divine perogative God can do anything He wants to do. After all, He is God. That being said, I also believe God is a just and loving God. This is also clearly stated in the Bible. Apparent scriptural references seeming to suggest otherwise are worthy of study. Some may make sense to me, others not.

He will stop it. My search has been similiar to yours in some ways. I was reared in a large moderate Baptist Church, and was baptized at six.
All my family were Christians and I had a favorite Uncle that was a small town pastor.Yet I never felt a personal relationship with Christ. I longed for such a relationship and sought God without apparent success through school, and into my early 40's. Often I doubted the existence of God, but I would walk the walk and talk the talk because I didn't want to be responsible for throwing anyone off course. Sometimes I would lay in bed and pray: "Jesus, if you are real, if you love me, why won't you show yourself? Give me a sign, any sign." I received no sign. I would go out of town to the country, read the Bible, and pray for faith. Nothing. I feared I was not one of the elect. And yet I was aware of the promises, that none who ask will be turned away, that God has made a covenant to accept the ones who call on him, and I pressed on. I sought Him for 45 years, but then He found me. Since then, (I am now 53), He has pulled me ever closer to Him, through scripture, the Holy Spirit, Godly people, and events (some very painful). I think He has a plan for each of us. In my case it may be that I was too anxious for proof over faith. I do believe that understanding follows faith rather than preceeds it. Also, I had such a long dry period, that it makes me appreciate the relationship all the more. Or, it just may be that God does things in His own time.

If your statements are true I am absolutely positive of one thing. God will find you. The promise to accept the seeker is absolute. Yes, it is written that none seek God but I believe that refers to the fact that none of us are pure of heart and seek God only. In our own limited human way we are capable of longing for Christ and in due time that longing will be realized.

[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: G B Mayes ]</p>

Philosoft

Yes, I can understand this. Similarly, I believe my shirt is red, but not in a sense that is incompatible with its blueness.

C'mon, pretty please, can we try to use words in ways at least superficially similar to every other thinking being?

G B Mayes

Free12thinker

Yes, and Yes

That would be arrogant because you and your wife did not bring your daughter into the world. Rather, God did. Your daughter belongs to God, not you.

God does have complete control. Any reason or logic was not adapted by humanity but given by God. The only requirement that we must "follow or pay the price" is to acknowledge Christ as the Son of God and accept Him as our Savior.

Kenny

Compatiblism, the view that freewill and determinism are not contradictory and simultaneously true, is a fairly standard philosophical position held by a number of philosophers and has been championed by the likes of Hume and A.J Ayer (though their idea of compatiblism differs significantly from mine). So, even if you think the idea is totally stupid, I’m not the first person to have thought of it, and apparently am not the only “thinking being” to consider it a meaningful position.

God Bless,
Kenny

Automaton

Kenny: That William Lane Craig article is interesting, but it does not address the problem. Rather it is more of a treatise on the fact that philosophers of science and philosophers of religion can often face the same problems. The very last sentence in the article is: Which simply makes God less-than-omniscient to solve the problem.

HelenM

That's why many people here don't believe, G B Mayes. They sought God but found no-one and no-one found them - so it seemed to them.

So what else are they to conclude except, either God doesn't exist and/or the Bible is not true and/or God doesn't keep His promises...

It's one thing to believe God keeps His promises. But does your belief negate the personal experience of several people here which is contrary to your belief? Are they all deluded? Liars? What is going on? Please explain!

love in Christ
Helen

GunnerJ

Well, if he's going to make a pot with such a smart mouth, he deserves what he gets, I say!