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Old 11-19-2002, 10:54 AM   #21
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And yet you pick a "fringe religion." (I'm jumping to a conclusion from your "blessed be" and Goddess mentions) One that lacks the unthinking general consensus that Christianity supplies. One whose tenants are never free from attack by Christian and Atheist alike. Why set yourself up for the hassel?

So tell me, what is the allure of an afterlife to you? With your body gone how do you intend to see and hear and feel?

Have you ever seen the Woody Allen movie Hanna and Her Sisters? He picks Marx Brothers flicks (Duck Soup) over existential angst after trying a number of religions.
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Old 11-20-2002, 09:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Biff the unclean:
<strong>And yet you pick a "fringe religion." (I'm jumping to a conclusion from your "blessed be" and Goddess mentions)
</strong>

Thass right - Wicca

Quote:
<strong>
One that lacks the unthinking general consensus that Christianity supplies. One whose tenants are never free from attack by Christian and Atheist alike. Why set yourself up for the hassel?
</strong>

Christianity is an evil religion that has no emotional appeal for me whatsoever. I've already said elsewhere what I think about that religion ("Satan's Big Black Lie", demonic, diabolical etc). I took a survey of some religions to see which appealed to me most. Islam? Same problem as Christianity. Buddhism? Too world-denying. Hinduism? Too much bound to a particular ethnicity. And so on. Wicca has the following positive points:

1. Life-affirming - a religion of communion with nature.

2. Hope-giving - has incarnation as means of life after death.

3. Empowering - EVERYONE can learn the mystery of the Goddess and God by exerting an effort.

4. PC - no-one goes to hell for their beliefs, equality of male and female (God and Goddess), you get what you deserve, etc...

Quote:
<strong>
So tell me, what is the allure of an afterlife to you? With your body gone how do you intend to see and hear and feel?
</strong>

It's not the afterlife I'm specifically enthusiastic about, it's just the prospect of being able to continue and grow. I expect to be reincarnated into another body when I die, and then I'll be able to grow further in the service of humankind and in the knowledge of the mysteries.

Blessed be.
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:44 AM   #23
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It sounds rather pleasant.

Two small problems I see with it though.
First is that you know it was made up. You can probably tell me the names of the people who concocted it. It has scant to do with the original Wicca who were secret followers of the classical religions.
The second is with the reincarnation. That wasn't part of the Hellenist or the Germanic Wicca. It was part of the Celtic. But, according to Celtic scholar Alexi Kondratiev, in the Druid religion when you died you went to "the other world" lived a life. Then when you died there you were reborn here in your same family (so be nice to your brothers and sisters) Or-depending on sect- you would go into oblivion and be cleansed of all that is you and then be reborn into your own family when an opening came up.
The problem that arises is that since you cannot remember any previous lives, and since you have no knowledge of any future lives then the YOU which you are concerned about continuing to exist still does not. An analogy might be a floppy disk that you store a Word document of Moby Dick on it. If I take this disk erase it (death) and then copy (reincarnate) a Word document of Trout Fishing in American then the disk goes on. But so what, all the original information that made that disk Moby Dick (you) is gone forever. There is no growth that isn't completely eradicated between incarnations.
Instead of a comfort it turns into a horror. In fact that is the bases of Buddhism. The Buddha helps you off this endless cycle and lets you achieve Nirvana. Nirvana, which is the very thing that frightens you so, is the goal of the Buddhists.

Go figure.
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Old 11-20-2002, 07:50 PM   #24
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I think people here are being a little hard on Dawn. While I strongly denounce the actions of organized religions and their adherents, I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with holding on to some metaphysical beliefs which may be comforting, if not rational. As long as it's a personal thing it doesn't hurt anyone.

I'm an agnostic humanist, and death is also the one thing that I fear most. However, I cannot will myself to believe in any kind of afterlife and am almost certain that death means annihilation. If I could take a pill which would allow me to believe in a Xtian afterlife or any other kind of afterlife I would strongly consider taking it.

The way I see it I'm going to die anyway and most likely cease to exist. I can either go painfully and fearfully or peacefully believing in a heaven. The second option appeals to me if only because it would make the finite amount of time I have here in this life much more bearable. But it's not going to happen so I continue to wallow in my unbelief and hope it gets easier as time goes on.
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Old 11-21-2002, 06:40 AM   #25
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Mmmmm, I dunno.
I'm a combat veteran and one thing that was very noticeable was that those who made the most noise about their faith giving them comfort and God giveing them strength were the very same ones who showed the least amount of courage when the going got rough.
These stories don't really seem to do any good in the back-bone department
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Old 11-22-2002, 12:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grad Student Humanist:
<strong>
I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with holding on to some metaphysical beliefs which may be comforting, if not rational.
</strong>

For me those beliefs are not just comforting, they're vital. Fear of death paralyses my ability to live normally.

Quote:
<strong>
so I continue to wallow in my unbelief and hope it gets easier as time goes on.
</strong>
Hey, that's what I said to myself in the past: "keep unbelief and hope it gets easier time goes on". Which it didn't - my fear of death only got sharper and more dominating as time went on. So I had to find some cure.

For those who do not fear death, it is very easy to dismiss this all as a crazy going-on that can be cured with just a few words or the right philosophy (like how many times I've had "when I am, death is not, when death is, I am not" quoted to me!). No, it's a root disease which can only be cured by a root treatment: to uproot the belief of death as oblivion. And I think it's high time, 'cos the belief of death as oblivion had me screaming with fear before I'd filled a decade of my life.

Faith that is a cushion for a hard fall
is vital to the body, mind and all.
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Old 11-23-2002, 12:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Heathen Dawn:
<strong>

...the belief of death as oblivion had me screaming with fear before I'd filled a decade of my life.
</strong>
There's a sad irony in having a pathological death phobia to stop you from really living.
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