Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ps418 · 04-11-2003, 10:46 AM

A new study shows that in humans, a mixture of caffeine and alcohol can significantly reduce stroke-related brain damage.

Experimental 'Coffee Cocktail' Tested As Way To Limit Stroke Damage

Quote:

DALLAS, April 11 � An experimental drug delivering the potency of two cups of strong coffee and a mixed drink has been shown to limit stroke-induced brain damage in animals. Now, this agent has been demonstrated to be safe in a small pilot study of ischemic stroke patients reported in today�s rapid access issue of Stroke: Journal of the American Heart Association.

This safety study is a crucial prelude to testing the effectiveness of the combination in patients. In previous studies in rats, the size of brain damage was reduced up to 80 percent when a combination of caffeine and ethanol, called caffeinol, was administered within three hours after an artery supplying blood to the brain was blocked (ischemic stroke).

Those studies �demonstrated that the combination of caffeine and ethanol may reduce the amount of damage after stroke. Neither caffeine or alcohol offered protection alone, but the combination was protective,� says senior author James C. Grotta, M.D., professor of neurology and director of the stroke program, University of Texas-Houston Medical School, Houston, Texas.

So, I'll feel a little bit better about drinking irish whiskey with my coffee. This article caught my eye because it reminded my of another (seemingly) paradoxical announcement in 1998 that cannabidiol, a non-psychoactive component of cannabis, and THC, the psychoactive component, were demonstrated to have a similar neuorprotective effect against ischaemic brain damage in rats (Hampson et al, 1998).

Hampson et al, 1998. Cannabidiol and (delta)9-tetrahydrocannabinol are neuroprotective antioxidants. PNAS 1998 95: 8268-8273.

scigirl · 04-11-2003, 03:01 PM

Woo Hoo!

scigirl

Slavik91 · 04-11-2003, 04:04 PM

Finally, a market for caffeinated beer!

There's only one problem, though. Hyperactive drunks are hard to deal with.

Mecha_Dude · 04-11-2003, 05:08 PM

A stimulated depressent?

Slavik91 · 04-11-2003, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mecha_Dude
A stimulated depressent?

If your referring to me, I just posted that as a spur-of-the-moment thing. I wasn�t thinking of the details.

RoddyM · 04-12-2003, 06:30 AM

Sounds pretty magical to me that two of the most common items in the neighbourhood, in whatever combination (caffeinol? get outa here) happen to be helpful to reduce the negative outcome of a what? A stroke? What do they mean? Ischaemia? How do they know? To what part of the brain? How did they compare the outcome in humans? Did they try branding irons to the soles of the feet? Dunking the lower half of the body in cold water? Upper half? Hot water? Then selected what appeared to be a positive outcome? If not why not?

People love the idea that something that is suposedly "bad" might in some way be "good". Trouble is that there is no such thing as good and bad.

Mecha_Dude · 04-12-2003, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slavik91
If your referring to me, I just posted that as a spur-of-the-moment thing. I wasn�t thinking of the details.

Mine was too, shoulda had a

smilie to make it a lil clearer...

RoddyM · 04-12-2003, 07:55 AM

Like I said, the good/bad thing appeals to people who can make into a weak joke.

Amie · 04-13-2003, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slavik91
Finally, a market for caffeinated beer!

There's only one problem, though. Hyperactive drunks are hard to deal with.

LOL

repoman · 04-13-2003, 04:00 AM

http://wwwchem.csustan.edu/chem4400/SJBR/Olson01.htm
http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5806.htm

nice links about the chain reacations that can happen in the brain when it experiences trauma.

Granted they may not be the highest in accuracy, but they seem to get most of the points without getting lay people, like me, lost or frustrated.

the fact that glutamate receptors (which are also activated by aspartate) can make bad situations worse has caused some to conclude that dietary intake of glutamate (MSG or hydrolyzed soy protiens etc...) and aspartate (40% of nutrasweet is aspartate )will make brain damage more likely. However, this seems iffy to me (I won't rule it out at all though) because it seemed that excess glutatmate in the brain is a symptom, not a cause of brain damage.

It also seems likely that ALS and other diseases related to glutamate are probably caused by the ineffective alleles of ALS, etc.. sufferers. I mean ALS predates MSG and nutrasweet. Of course wholeslae consumption of amino acid monomers or dipeptides(nutrasweet breaks down quickly into phenylalanine methanol and aspartate) that are excitatory neurotransmitters may lower the brains resiliency in case of trauma. But this is a massively controversial topic.

It would be nice if by eating well and taking enough (but not too much) vitamins minerals and antioxidants you could have your brain in tip top shape and forestall degeneration by many years. But, even I feel as if maybe a great deal of what I am reading about will not make a great deal of difference. But that will not stop me from looking at all, but yes indeed discretion and a grain of salt would indeed be useful.

http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/30/iron_stroke.htm

this last link is pretty surprising -- high iron makes strokes more damaging I will make low Iron one of the qualifiers for a multivitamin. I read alsewhere that iron when combined with oxidized vitamin C (common when vitamin E is low and doesn't replenish vitamin C) makes lots of hydroxy radicals. Iron can indeed be a PRO-oxidant. Oh and by the way, magnesium on the on the other hand actually inhibits the glutamate receptors that take part in the runaway reactions I talked about earlier. But if you listen to the vitamin companies and the press you'll be dazzled by the glamour of Iron.

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04-11-2003, 03:01 PM	#2
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	Woo Hoo! scigirl

04-11-2003, 04:04 PM	#3
Slavik91 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 169	Finally, a market for caffeinated beer! There's only one problem, though. Hyperactive drunks are hard to deal with.

04-11-2003, 05:08 PM	#4
Mecha_Dude Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Everywhere... I'm Watching you... Posts: 1,019	A stimulated depressent?

04-12-2003, 06:30 AM	#6
RoddyM Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 183	Sounds pretty magical to me that two of the most common items in the neighbourhood, in whatever combination (caffeinol? get outa here) happen to be helpful to reduce the negative outcome of a what? A stroke? What do they mean? Ischaemia? How do they know? To what part of the brain? How did they compare the outcome in humans? Did they try branding irons to the soles of the feet? Dunking the lower half of the body in cold water? Upper half? Hot water? Then selected what appeared to be a positive outcome? If not why not? People love the idea that something that is suposedly "bad" might in some way be "good". Trouble is that there is no such thing as good and bad.

04-12-2003, 07:55 AM	#8
RoddyM Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 183	Like I said, the good/bad thing appeals to people who can make into a weak joke.

04-13-2003, 04:00 AM	#10
repoman Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,280	http://wwwchem.csustan.edu/chem4400/SJBR/Olson01.htm http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5806.htm nice links about the chain reacations that can happen in the brain when it experiences trauma. Granted they may not be the highest in accuracy, but they seem to get most of the points without getting lay people, like me, lost or frustrated. the fact that glutamate receptors (which are also activated by aspartate) can make bad situations worse has caused some to conclude that dietary intake of glutamate (MSG or hydrolyzed soy protiens etc...) and aspartate (40% of nutrasweet is aspartate )will make brain damage more likely. However, this seems iffy to me (I won't rule it out at all though) because it seemed that excess glutatmate in the brain is a symptom, not a cause of brain damage. It also seems likely that ALS and other diseases related to glutamate are probably caused by the ineffective alleles of ALS, etc.. sufferers. I mean ALS predates MSG and nutrasweet. Of course wholeslae consumption of amino acid monomers or dipeptides(nutrasweet breaks down quickly into phenylalanine methanol and aspartate) that are excitatory neurotransmitters may lower the brains resiliency in case of trauma. But this is a massively controversial topic. It would be nice if by eating well and taking enough (but not too much) vitamins minerals and antioxidants you could have your brain in tip top shape and forestall degeneration by many years. But, even I feel as if maybe a great deal of what I am reading about will not make a great deal of difference. But that will not stop me from looking at all, but yes indeed discretion and a grain of salt would indeed be useful. http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/30/iron_stroke.htm this last link is pretty surprising -- high iron makes strokes more damaging I will make low Iron one of the qualifiers for a multivitamin. I read alsewhere that iron when combined with oxidized vitamin C (common when vitamin E is low and doesn't replenish vitamin C) makes lots of hydroxy radicals. Iron can indeed be a PRO-oxidant. Oh and by the way, magnesium on the on the other hand actually inhibits the glutamate receptors that take part in the runaway reactions I talked about earlier. But if you listen to the vitamin companies and the press you'll be dazzled by the glamour of Iron.

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