Bookman

Carrie,

I have been through, over the last ten months, the very situation that you describe. My wife and a male friend got into the habit of corresponding by email and instant message. It never led to a physical encounter between the two of them, and yet what it did lead to was an affair.

Emotionally, the two of them became far too entangled in one another's lives. In short, the amount of contact and the intimacy of it, discussing the minutiae of one another's lives turned into feelings of love for one another. Because of this relationship, my wife and I lost a great deal of intimacy with one another, which we are repairing only now. I was no longer the person with whom she was sharing her hopes, her fears, or her love. I wasn't her husband day-to-day -- he was -- despite the fact that I was the one that she came home to every night.

This isn't about not having sex with someone, this is about emotional primacy. Your husband, for as long as he is your husband and you have a "traditional" arrangement , deserves the greatest part of what you share with anyone. If you want to change that, he deserves to know and to be a part of the decision making process.

For my own part, I will just warn you that the presence and intrusion of electronic communication is brand new to our culture. It is easy to become a compulsive user of it; to become addicted to the ease of contact; that habit, combined with someone for whom you have affection, even as a friend, is a volitile combination. Be careful.

To ab_normal's point, I don't believe that social situations that weren't one-on-one fed the relationship at all, nor are they uncomfortable for me now. The three of us (in an odd coincidence) are also in an RPG group, and we enjoy doing activities together as families: there are three kids among the three of us. It's the electronic communication and intimate gatherings (like the two of them going to a restaurant) that can be trouble and can strengthen feelings that neither of you want.

That's my two cents on the subject. I wish you luck.

Bookman

P.S. I haven't shared this on II before, because it has been too painful. I hope that this revelation does some good for you, because it is not without some pain that I reveal it.

Loren Pechtel

Traditional or not. Swingers still do not want emotional infidelity whatever their rules on physical contact.

brighid

Carrie,

You are married now and your first commitment should be to your marriage. If your husband is uncomfortable with this newly rekindled friendship the two of you need to find a compromise that will make both of you happy and comfortable. It’s sort of disturbing that you are conducting this friendship on behind your husband’s back, especially since he has stated his misgivings. You are right to feel that your husband will likely feel hurt. If I were in his shoes I would feel hurt too.

If your friendship with this ex is causing you to choose to deceive your husband you might want to reevaluate the relationship with this “friend”, or reflect on why you feel it necessary to deceive your husband to get what you want.

My husband does not tell me whom I can and cannot be friends with, male or female. We do discuss how the other feels about certain relationships. I did not particularly like my husband’s continue friendship with his ex either. It wasn’t that I didn’t trust him because he has never given me reason not to trust him, but frankly I could see how she tried to emotionally manipulate him. She also would do very purposeful, yet seemingly “innocent” things in an attempt to assert herself into our lives. We came to a compromise and although they still talk on occasion he has made it very clear what sorts of behaviors are appropriate.

I also had an ex desiring to come back into my life, although he was engaged. Although I really enjoy his company as a friend, and even enjoyed our conversations I did not hide them from my husband. I chose to end that correspondence more for the sake of his relationship then my own. I knew his fiancé would react (and she sure as heck did) badly to my presence in his life, given the role I had played in it. I was not confident that he could maintain plutonic appearances, nor was I sure I could curtail my sarcasm and bust his ass with his new wife-to-be (as it was he was involved with both of us simultaneously, but he was able to pull the “wool” over her eyes and any time spent with me would truly prove disastrous to their relationship.)

If you feel unfulfilled at home, socially or otherwise you owe it to yourself and your husband to work on strategies to eliminate that boredom, frustration, etc. If you feel you need to branch out do so, but honor your commitment to your marriage and do not jeopardize the trust you have by conducting this emotional “affair” of sorts behind your husbands back, and against his wishes. If you harm the trust in your relationship the damage may be irreparable. All for what?

Brighid

dangin

OK, I'm typically the one on the other side of the fence on this stuff, so why should this be any different.

First of all, Normal Illinois is a great town, almost as good as bloomington. I did all my best cheating there when I was attending undergraduate school at the small university. (I'm no redbird)

Anyway, if this guy is giving you something that you are not getting from your husband you need to examine that. Marriage schmarriage, this is about you, if you need to make a change, make it. If it hurts your husband, better now than later. If you can handle "intimacy" of any sort with more than one person at a time (I know how much work this takes) then go for it.

You're filling a need in your life, if staying with your husband means that need goes unfulfilled then you need to figure it out.

We are not built for life long monogamy, and here's where people, even if they agree with me, will say that you still should not be violating the trust of someone you've made a committment too. I say your primary committment is to yourself. Figure out what you need, and make your world right.

If that's bad for your husband, then he's going to have to figure out what he needs after you've left. And most importantly, however this turns out, whether you stay with your husband, or move on, you may find yourself in the same position in the future. In that case move on again, your life is about you, not about them. Perhaps you should be marriage shy, but short of that. . . its up to you to make your way. This is the only life you've got, don't waste it hoping someone else will make it better.

I recommend a trip to Pub II for some cheddar cheese balls and a beer.

dangin

Been there, I think it is impossible not to gain an emotional connection with someone when you cum with them. You just have to learn to handle it. Sex without some emotional attachment is pathological.

HelenM

I agree.

Carrie did say she loves her husband and wants to stay with him.

Carrie, I suggest you talk to your husband about ways that the two of you together can spend more time with people you'd like to be with and less with the Christians whose company you aren't enjoying any more. While it can be fine for husbands and wives to have some separate interests and friends, I think it's best to try to maximise the number of things you can do together, for the sake of the relationship. The more time you spend apart, the more danger there is of you growing apart until you have nothing left in common. And I would be very careful about developing emotional intimacy with another man. If you think about what would hurt your husband, I would think it's having someone else mean more to you emotionally than he does. If you get into a physical relationship with someone else it will hurt him because it will demonstrate to him that someone else has replaced him in your affections. If you don't stop short of a physical relationship but emotionally you've become closer to someone else than him, and he finds out or guesses, then I think it will still hurt as much or almost as much. Maybe not quite as much because presumably you didn't let the other relationship become physical because of your commitment to your husband. So that would mean something. But I still can't see how it would be ok with him for you to love someone else instead of him.

So, I hope you will avoid anything that encourages emotional intimacy between you and a man other than your husband. Maybe you could take some of the time you've spent e-mailing your ex-boyfriend and spend it talking with your husband instead. Maybe he will be happy to discuss ways the two of you could do social things that you want to do. But I hope you can do them with him, as far as possible, and not separately from him.

Bookman, that does sound very painful - I'm sorry you're going through that . I hope that you and your wife will be able to continue rebuilding your marriage relationship so that it's as good or better than before.

Helen

dangin

C'mon helen, what about all of our intimacy??? What about all those times at the drive in, we didn't go there to watch the movie you know. . .

Totally kidding. . .love you helen.

Anyway, helen is a wise person and her advice is not off the mark.

Except, everyone is ready to say "you are married and that is the most important thing". Which is absurd. Marriage is a man made invention/convention. The symbolic idea of your unity does not outweigh your individual well being.

People get married for lots of reasons, many of them wrong. And even if you marry well, it is a good start, but that does not mean it won't go to shit later.

I've been married twice, my first wife and I are still great friends, she lives in your town, you can call her if you want.

I'm still married to my second wife. The reason we are still together is because we have children whom we both desperately love, we get along most weeks out of the year, we have a few mutual interests, and if I have some intimacy of any sort with someone else, I don't rub her face in it, nor do I let it break down our own intimacy. And the same goes for her.

Good luck to you, I think I've made my enabling point extremely clear, how can you give to someone else, if for whatever reason, they are not giving you what you need in return. Living a life like that is half a life.

HelenM

But you promised not to tell...

Helen

Carrie

Wow this is very helpful.

I do see that I need to be very honest with my husband about my male friendships.

And I really need to limit the e-mail and phone calls to my ex, because lately I have been telling him more stuff than I have been telling my husband.

The problem is that there IS something lacking in my life! Sorry for the complaining here, but I can't really talk to my husband anymore, because he's still a Fundamentalist Christian, and he totally can't relate to me! It pisses me off that he's so close minded. I can't even have an intellectual conversation with him, and that's one thing I really like. I'm basically just smarter than he is. I say something, and he has nothing to offer back.
We don't even like to do the same things. It's starting to suck! I am bored.

But I want to stay with him, because he's mine and I do love him. I can't imagine leaving him. I'm sure I would regret it if I left him. There are many great things about him. My husband and I really are friends, and we share a similar sense of humor, and we have fun together, and are very comfortable together. So I don't want to divorce him. At least not so far. That would be extremely tough and not something I'd like to go through. I'm not
unhappy enough to leave him. I'd rather work things through.

I just need SOMETHING! And my husband and I need to talk about that too. We have, but I have to keep it up, and make sure I get what I want too. I figure if I make friends who are interesting and like to do things I like to do, then that will make up where my husband is lacking. It would help me not be so bored, and then I can appreciate my husband more - for who he is and what he has to offer, and I won't think so much about
what he lacks. Hell, no one is perfect. If I found another guy, he'd be lacking in some way too. What is important to me is that my husband is a good husband. He'd be a great dad too. (We don't have kids yet). He's got a lot of what I want, but not all of it. Other guys I've dated had what he lacks, yet they had serious flaws of their own (like drug addiction, or they were jerks).

So I guess I've been looking to my ex to fill in where my husband lacks. My ex is a much better conversationalist, and he shares my beliefs. I thought if I was getting that kind of stimulation somewhere, then I'd be happier. Maybe I will be, but I shouldn't get it from him. Maybe I should find interesting female friends to fill that gap in my life, eh? That may be harder, but safer.

Thanks for all of your input so far. I obviously need the advice.

(Dangin, that’s some tempting advice, to just do what I want and worry only about me, but I don’t know about that. Half the time what I think I want is not really what I want or need, and usually is not good for me. I’d probably like dating biker gang guys, and
getting trashed a lot, and being wild. Ah, that sounds fun, but it would probably not lead me in a very positive direction).

HelenM

Was everything you did with your husband a 'Christian' thing? I would think there are things the two of you enjoy together that aren't 'exclusively Christian'.

I think most husbands and wives find that they enjoy the variety of company with other people as well as their spouse. That's different from changing the person you have your most personal, intimate conversations with, from your spouse to someone else.

Another problem is the 'grass is greener' effect. Someone you aren't with all the time can easily seem more exciting than your spouse.

Anyway, maybe your husband would understand better than you think. I know it's easy for me to build up a picture of how my husband might respond to something that is quite inaccurate and unnecessarily pessimistic. The only way to know is to go talk to him, choosing the time and occasion carefully so he's in a good mood and so you have time to really talk.

Also, you could start a thread on SL&S about what you can do now your deconversion has caused you and your husband to have less in common. Or maybe this thread will eventually move there if that's the direction it goes in.

It seems like this thread is giving you some helpful things to think about and I'm glad.

Helen