Tristan Scott

According to the gospels there were actually two men named Jesus put before Pilate for crucifixion.

In the early MSS of Matthew, Barabbas is called Jesus Barabbas. The name Barabbas is translated as Son of the Father or even as Son of God if you consider that Abba, or father was, and still is another name for God.

So it could be asked, which Jesus was crucified? Jesus, the King of the Jews? Or Jesus the Son of God?

In the cloud that the Early church has put before the history of this era, how do we know which Jesus was crucified? Both were seen as leaders of insurection against the order, one with violence and one with words.

Doctor X

Dang . . . "at the office" . . . so I cannot check the text I have, but I thought Mk also contained the "Jesus Barabas" in many of the witnesses. Some would argue it is a "better" reading based on the witnesses and the general rule of "the most difficult reading is prefered." Thus, it is usually more likely for a scribe/monk to "correct" a reading that causes controversy than it is for him to create it.

If it was "original" to the Mk text . . . what it means I am not sure . . . I had been told that the "tradition" of letting some schmuck go on Passover is a "made-up" tradition that did not exist--if anyone has reference for or against that I would welcome it.

I do not know . . . one of the "difficulties" of the NT story/traditions that I think writers had to address was the tradition of execution. Perhaps this was an "answer" that, no, Junior was not a crimminal, the crimminal Jesus was let go. It is such a weak aspect in Mk, in my opinion, that I do not think he would have started it, but who knows?

--J.D.

mark9950

on jesus barrabas.

http://www.redbay.com/ekklesia/barabbas.htm

Tristan Scott

There is a lot of confusion as to who was actually crucified, depending on whom you are listening to. There are some Gnostic cults, offshoots of ancient Nasoraeans actually, known as the Johanaeans or Mandaeans who believe that Jesus survived the cross. They don't revere Jesus however, they have John the Baptist at the head of their church. Like most other Gnostics they were very much at odds with the Pauline Christians, in fact it's possible that Paul ran into some Johanaeans while he was travelling in Corinth at Ephesus, as recounted by Luke in Acts. They believe that Jesus' twin brother Judas Thomas took his place at the cross and that Jesus himself lived the rest of his life as Judas Thomas, and that the Gospel of Thomas was actually the work of Jesus himself!

You're right, though, who knows what really happened? The only thing that is for certain is that the Christians are certainly not right in their depiction of their own deity, their Christ as being a god fulfilling some prophecy from Jewish scripture. The Jews were prophecizing the coming of a king, of this world, not a god.

Doctor X

Tristan:

Thanks for the info!

One of the reasons I find the NT texts "fun" is trying to figure out the social politics. For example, Mk has J the B subordinated to Junior quickly and that is it. However, Jn burns a lot of pappyrus having J the B himself subordinate himself to Junior. Indeed, he "forbids" his followers for honoring him over Junior.

So . . . did Jn's group/intended audience meet with more opposition from a J the B group than the other writers? You information on the Gnosticism of a group that had J the B as the "head" is interesting since I find Jn a rather "gnostic" gospel.

Which often brings me to "which Jesus" in that different ones are portrayed in the texts.

--J.D.