meritocrat

Most people state that all must be 'nice' to children. Why? Where did this notion start?

Aren't general concepts of childhood naivete and innocence simply stereotypes?

Aquila ka Hecate

Children are our only immortality.

I think the being nice comes from a dim-witted apprehension of how we best preserve and encourage the survival of our kids.
I'm a mother and I'm all for being 'nasty' to kids, as a survival mechanism.

dangin

Picking on kids is no sport at all, they are too easy.

Seriously, I think it is part of the "social contract" that we be "nice" to everyone (within reason). If you believe that maintaining the support of your society is important, being nice to children is an easy way to be seen as a "good" person, being mean, or harmful to children is a good way to lose support, (or your life if you fall in the "harmful" category).

Finally, being mean to children, or indifferent to children is thought to be a contibuting factor to the children becoming less than stable adults.

I think being "nice" is in your own interest, what more reason do you need?

dk

The premise, “Being nice to children makes them nice”, follows from folk psychology which isn't really psychology but a hodgepodge of impressions that say, "People are born perfect but corrupted by the world" In the post modern world people often confuse dependcy with innocence. Children in our society are regarded as dependent and innocent.

Ab_Normal

My friend dictionary.com had this to say about "nice"
I'm guessing the OP was using meaning number 3, "Exhibiting courtesy and politeness". In that case, I have to agree with dangin, that being nice is an important aspect of "getting along" in society.
As for the concepts of naivete and innocence: In my experience as a parent, I have seen that my child needed to be taught how to interact with others in a polite (dare I say "nice"?) manner. They certainly don't hit the ground knowing that they shouldn't hit the other kids and take the toy they want. But there are societal issues I have tried to protect her from until she's ready to deal with them intellectually, like environmental damage, the threat of terrorism, stuff like that which is beyond her control. Does a six year old need to worry about the rain forest? I don't think so.

But I don't know if that was the kind of innocence you were talking about, meritocrat.

Monkeybot

Children's early experiences inform them about the world. I'm not claiming "every child is like a star in the shining sea" or any such junk, but they are still in development. The reason you should be "nice" (or at least - not mean) to children is that it might affect their development negatively.

I know, I know, everything might affect their development negatively, but it seems more likely that mean, abusive behaviour will affect them negatively than the opposite.

dk

I think there's more meat on the issue than meets the eye. For example sexual predators are highly motivated to be publicly "nice" to children for a number of reasons, none nice. A good parent may not be nice to a child in public for good reasons, but in being a good parent they might become the object of public chastisement, scandal or even a formal complaint to local officials. There’s a presumption of “nice” that affords children public liberties that actually put them at risk. In fact there’s a case to be made that being “too nice” to strange children teaches a child to trust stranger putting them in harms way. Children have reason to be wary of strangers, even when a stranger might appear to be “nice”.

Ab_Normal

[off-topic]...great, now I've got "Cruel To Be Kind" going through my head... [/off-topic]

I have felt the onus of the general public while dragging my whining toddler out of the store - the stares that follow you, which seem to say, "That kid is crying, you're a bad parent!" I've felt the little frisson of fear taking that same toddler out in public with horrendous bruises on her legs, because she was in the "run into everything" stage of her development. "Crap! They'll think I'm beating her!" But nothing ever came of it, and we soldiered through it.

And I have seen parents who seemed affected by the public opinion, letting their little hellions run loose in public places, and I have thought, "They're just setting that kid up for grief." My husband, who is far more forward than I, has talked to such parents, to little positive affect.

I can agree that "nice" should not mean giving in to your kid's every whim just so you don't look "mean" in public.

However, we have hashed over the concept of what is acceptable discipline so many times on this board, I don't think we need to revisit it.

The Other Michael

If their name happens to be "Lord Greystoke" I think they'd be quite worried about the rain forest.

Generally, I think you should try to be nice to people who haven't given you reason to be mean to them.

I'm willing to give children the benefit of the doubt and treat them like small adults - I'll simplify the terms, but otherwise try to not talk down to them (except I usually won't crouch to avoid doing that). If they are acting in an antisocial way, it is the parent(s)' job to remove them from the presence of others until they are able to regain some level of control on their behavior.

cheers,
Michael

Paperstreet

Children is such a broad term. There are so many different developmental stages of children to adolescence, that saying "doing this to a child is ok" and "this isnt". When I go out with my parents to eat, I will once in a while be asked "And a kids menu for you"?

Certain things are ok for you to do for different age groups of your children. Is it ok to say "Shut the fuck up and sit still" to your 5 year old? No. But if your 16 year old is being a pain in the ass, then you can be a little bit meaner then your usual self. Sure he will get hurt, but he will get over it. Your 5 year old may not suck it up as easily.

Overall, why the hell would you want to go out of your way to be mean to children, or anyone, unless it was needed? If you respect kids, they will respect you. It is your job as a more mature, responsible, adult to show the respect first.