Buffman

Nira

Having lived in Norway for several years, my questions were more than rhetorical. They were an attempt to point out that for a country judged to have the highest standard of living in the world, there was a huge gap between that standard for the native born and those immigrants allowed into the country....immigrants whose cultural backgrounds and religious beliefs are alien to the prevailing culture.

I mentioned Kirkenes and Oslo because I found the folks from each to have very different attitudes and views concerning real-politik.

The point I’m trying to make is that a conflict has two sides. Having the 10 commandments on a government building is undesirable, but by making it a juridical offence and suing left, right and centre what do you achieve?

How would you react to dispays of the Swastika on your public buildings? It's just a religious symbol...isn't it? Would it bother you? Would it bother other Norwegians? If the government was the one placing those Swastikas on the public buildings, and using the power of the government to keep them there, how would you (or others) go about getting them removed?

Here are two URLs for your consideration. The first has many pages of quotes. However, if you have the time to read through just the B's, and see how many U.S. Presidents and presidential candidates are quoted, perhaps you will begin to appreciate the nature and depth of the religious problem that has developed in America since the Born Again Christians got themselves elected/appointed to public offices under our Constitution. They do not consider the U.S.Constitution to be their defining document. They consider the Holy Bible as the ultimate guiding authority. (Be sure that you read what the senior GWB thinks about atheists. And don't miss how Gary Bauer and Pat Buchanan view the path that America should follow.)

The second URL may help to correct some misconceptions you seem to have concerning the the ACLU and its role in protecting every citizen's civil rights under our Constitution. (Many of our minority groups owe their continued freedom to openly express their religious conscience to the ACLU. The ACLU protects these minorities from the tyranny and oppression of the majority.)

<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/scar_b.htm" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/scar_b.htm</a>

<a href="http://arar.essortment.com/acluamericanci_rmal.htm" target="_blank">http://arar.essortment.com/acluamericanci_rmal.htm</a>

PS: Remember, America is the country that produced the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798; the Anti-Espionage and Sedition Acts of 1917 & 1918; and now, the USA Patriot Act of 2001. All of these allowed the existing governments to curtail rights granted to us under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights using the rubric of National Security.

enrious

Guess I got them confused. Looks like the stiff lost to the corpse.

Oresta

Nira:
Knowledge is a dangerous ting.

As is a little learning; "drink deep or taste not of the Pierian spring..."

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Oresta ]

Dang! Left out "taste" in Pope's quote.

[ June 01, 2002: Message edited by: Oresta ]</p>

randman

The idea that atheists are persecuted is just silly for the most part, but Christians are persecuted, especially in other countries.

Mageth

"Just silly?" Atheists are persecuted in other countries, too, randman. You can find examples of Moslems being persecuted, Hindus being, persecuted, just about any group being persecuted. What's your point? History has shown us that the dominant religion/paradigm tends to (mildly to severely) persecute minority religions/paradigms. Xianity is definitely dominant in this country.

Viti

randman what are you talking about? Why is is 'silly' if atheists are persecuted but if you look at a Christian cross eyed they are martyrs

Toto

Ouside of China, Christians are mostly persecuted in Moslem countries in this post-communist world. (Except for the countries where Christians persecute other Christians.) Moslem countries that imprison Christians are even quicker to imprison non-believers - look up the blasphemy conviction of Dr. Shaikh in Pakistan.

hezekiah jones

It's a fair question. Of course there's always the danger he will attempt to answer it.

The Resistance

Husband in 1840: "the idea that my wife is being persecuted is jsut plain silly, but us men can't go to the whorehouse without our wives trying to make us feel guilty about it."

Slaveowner: "The idea that &lt;racial expletetive&gt; are being persecuted is just plain silly, but those damn Northerners keeping persecuting us."

Nazi in 1938 Germany: "The idea that Jews are being persecuted is just plain silly, but us Germans are being taken advantage of by inferior races."

I know I beaten the point to death, but allow one more.

Catholic Priest now so long ago: "Alter boys being molested is just silly, it's just the media trying to persecute us Catholics."

Things change, but the lies do not.

Queen of Swords

If the idea that atheists are persecuted is silly only "for the most part", randman, could you point out examples of when it is not silly?