mike_decock

I don't choose to believe any unsupported nonsense. Like I said, belief is not a choice. If I am presented unsupported nonsense, I won't believe it because it's unsupported and nonsenscial.

-Mike...

mike_decock

Um, where do you think the Roman Catholics get their interpretations from? They can scripturally support their doctrine just like you can.

-Mike...

Mageth

Or by the Bible which I can readily quote, unlike most of them.

OK, where's the quotes that back your assertions, such as this one:

I'm saying that people will not choose it anyway and will actually choose to live on in hell. The will to live is not going to go away in hell by definition. I believe "unquenchable fire" refers to their decrepit, incorrigible, self condemned spiritual state, not some physical flames burning them.

It sounds more like your interpretation of the scripture is what you're leaning on, not the scripture itself. The same scriptures can, and are, used to support different beliefs.

Around here, if you haven't noticed, us atheists tend not to believe in hell. Trying to convince me that your particular version is the "correct" one is, well, pointless.

So why don't you go to a xian board and you guys try to sort out what hell really is and then get back to us with a consensus opinion (good luck). It's amazing that such an essential concept would be so ambiguously described by an omnimax god.

...

Your "side" does not serve justice any more than the ascriptural beliefs of some fundies.

Umm, on that thread I was playing the devil's advocate arguing many fundies' "ascriptural" beliefs in hell, Rad. Get it? It's obvious from my comments on this thread that I don't think the concept of hell (yours or theirs) serves "justice". Get it?

Rhea

So, going waaay back to the thoughts on what there is to do in heaven... I get this.

You watch god's creation. You don't have a scientific interest because it's creation, after all. But it's cool looking. Universes, viruses, and the like. Also, God has some tasks for you to do.

so what we have here... Heaven is...


You're a Janitor at a perpetual art gallery opening reception?
(or maybe you're serving the hors d oeuvres)

THAT is Heaven ?!?!

[stereotype humor hat on...]

But that means there are gays in heaven!!!

[/stereotype humor]

lpetrich

On the subject of choosing to believe something, it is certainly possible to do so. However, that can be very difficult in some cases.

mike_decock

Can you explain how "choosing to believe" works? I just don't see it.

-Mike...

Magus55

You really don't know much about Roman Catholicism do you? It is the most heretical, unbiblical load of crap there is. Ever been to Rapture Ready? The apologetics topics are 90% of the time about Catholics because of how completely unbiblical they are. The Catechism and the Vatican/Pope take precedence over the Bible. 90% of the Doctrine Catholics follow are based on the Catechism, not the Bible, and they not only have no scriptural support - they have scriptural verses that specifically say what they believe in is wrong and blasphemy. The Catholic church is the biggest disgrace to Christianity there is.

Trust me, they can't scripturally support their doctrine. The interpretations come directly from the Pope ( who they say is infallible on matters of faith and morality) and the Vatican Council, not from the Bible.

Mageth

Magus, apparently it's you that don't know much about Roman Catholicism. Any good RC scholar could show you biblical support for any Catholic belief or doctrine, whether handed down from the pope or not. That's mike's point.

Go to a Catholic apologetics website and make your claim and see what kind of responses you get. Go there and try to find one example of a Catholic doctrine that they can't whip out a few scriptures to support.

This is not an indication of which "side" is correct on which issue; it's merely an indication that the bible can be used to support just about any doctrine you wish.

mike_decock

Apparently you are the one who is uninformed about Roman Catholicism.



The Catechism IS their interpretation of scripture.

A catechism should faithfully and systematically present the teaching of Sacred Scripture, the living Tradition in the Church and the authentic Magisterium, as well as the spiritual heritage of the Fathers, Doctors and saints of the Church, to allow for a better knowledge of the Christian mystery and for enlivening the faith of the People of God. It should take into account the doctrinal statements which down the centuries the Holy Spirit has intimated to his Church. It should also help to illumine with the light of faith the new situations and problems which had not yet emerged in the past.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Unlike the Protestants where all the leadership of each church or denomination establishes their own doctrine, the Catholics put great effort into establishing a unified interpretation.

The Catechism is based on the Catholic Bible and the accompanying Sacred Texts, not the chopped-down Protestant bible you appear to use. I'm sure many Catholics view the Protestants as the blasphemous heretics who rejected the apostolic authority of the Roman Catholic church.

Trust me, they can scripturally support their doctrine. The Pope and the Vatican Council devote their entire lives to determining matters of faith and morality by studying the Bible.

-Mike...

Magus55

Show me scriptural support for: Mary is the Queen of Heaven and Peace, Mary is the mediator between us and God, Mary was assumed into Heaven, Mary can forgive us of our sins, Mary is worshipped, Mary's immaculate conception, Mary's perpetual virginity, the Pope is infallible, the Rosary, Sacraments are required for salvation, Mary is blessed above all women, interfaith, the RCC is the one true church, anyone who isn't Catholic will not be saved. And i could go on. There are pictures of the Pope kissing the Koran! The leader of the Roman Catholic Church kissing the book the says kill Christians and Jews, and Jesus is not God! The Pope supports that there are other ways to Heaven other than Jesus! NONE of it is biblical! Its all heresy and blasphemy. Catholic church is christian my arse. Go to www.rr-bb.com under apologetics and go through the Catholic threads there. Its disgusting.