David Mathews

Hello Novowels,

David: Apathy is a form of hate and is treated accordingly. Christians are not under threat of punishment for their weaknesses and sins because God's grace is sufficient to cover these. The desire to live perfectly is related to our love and devotion to God.

Love,

David Mathews

Novowels

I was under the impression that "apathy" was simply the lack of feeling. There is no hate, there is no love, there is no general dislike. Or do you feel that if you do not love someone, you must hate them? I do not believe this: There are certainly people in the world that I feel nothing for! That does not mean that I hate them. Many of them I do not even know!

If there is no punishment for the "command" to love, then is it a command? It seems to me that it is more a request. "Try your hardest to love everyone." Now of course, if there was a punishment for not loving someone: "Love everyone. Or else." - then that would be a command.

Or more honestly, a threat.

-William

babelfish

Umm, okay, but while I was searching for that, I happened to glance at all the love and neighborliness and tolerance for all our fellow man, contained in Judges....

HelenM

The Sermon on the Mount includes this:

Matt 6:14-15 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Does this apply to Christians?

If so then in what sense is "then I will not forgive you" not a punishment for the sin of not being forgiving, when a Christian sins in that way?

love
Helen

David Mathews

Hello babelfish,

David: Does the behavior of Israel trouble you? Humans have a long history of engaging in war and behaving in an evil manner. Humans continue to do so today, including our own beloved United States of America (6000 or so nuclear weapons designed to kill hundreds of millions of people).

Love,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Helen,

David: Well, Helen, as a Christian, does it apply to you?

David: What? Could you rephase the question?

Love,

David Mathews

babelfish

And this makes the bible an excellent absolute moral compass . . . how, exactly???



I was under the impression that the ancient Israelites were "engaging in war and behaving in an evil manner," including killing women and children - that is when they weren't enslaving them - in accordance with God's wishes and with God's explicit blessings.

[ July 30, 2002: Message edited by: babelfish ]</p>

HelenM

Originally posted by David Mathews:

Helen: The Sermon on the Mount includes this:

Matt 6:14-15 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; but if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

In what sense is "then I will not forgive you" not a punishment for the sin of not being forgiving, when a Christian sins in that way?

David: What? Could you rephrase the question?

Ok, I'll try...

You wrote:

Emphasis mine.

&lt;theologically speaking&gt;

The passage from Matthew says God will not forgive people who do not forgive others.

People not forgiving others is a sin.

If God does not forgive them then they must be punished for that sin because He is just.

So, while God's grace may be sufficient in various ways, then either that Matthew passage is not true, or what you said about God's grace being sufficient that Christians are not punished for their sins, is not true. Because the Matthew passage speaks of a sin God will not forgive. Which means those who sin in that way will be punished for it. And there is nothing in the passage about it not applying to Christians.

&lt;/ts&gt;

love
Helen

David Mathews

Hello babelfish,

David: As a Christian I would condemn you if you emulated the behavior of Israel & its leaders during this period.

David: Ancient Israel did not understand God, not by any means, and they lived consistently with the barbaric customs of that time.

Love,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Helen,

David: Unless you are an exceptionally uninformed Christian -- which is a distict and substantial possibility -- you will know the answer to the above questions.

Helen, I can't believe that a devout Christian such as yourself would have such difficulty with simple Biblical concepts. Are you really this bad at imitating Christians, or are you just an uninformed Christian?

Love,

David Mathews