Ron Singh

To tell you the truth, I'm very uneducated in regards to the subject and I don't really get into many discussions about it (I'm only 15, so that might be why). I plan to learn about it soon, but I've been occupied with these atheist as of lately . I do know that sikhs have been savagely slaughtered over the last twenty-five years. In terms of the politics and the economics of it, I have no idea.

Boro Nut

Basically its too low profile. There just aren't enough of them, and no famous ones to talk of. The only one that springs to mind is Haydn, and his music was crap.

Boro Nut

brahma

Boro Nut - you are incorrigible!

brahma

I was a kid in India when the most savage violence went down. For those who dont know what this was all about, the Sikhs wanted India to 'get out' of the state of Punjab, which they called Khalistan. They felt they were being oppressed by India because they were a minority and wanted self-determination. This led to the formation of the Khalistan Commando Force and ultimately to some of the worst violence India has known. The KCF were a terrorist group much like the IRA. I remember this was the time I was just beginning to move on from the Tarzan comics in the daily paper and take an interest in the news. Day after day it was the same story, "Sikh extremists kill innocent people, innocent Sikhs killed by the Indian Police". I remember being sickened by it all.

It all finally boiled over in 1984. The Indian army was called in to flush out Sikh terrorists that were holed up in the Golden Temple, the most sacred Sikh shrine. In the <a href="http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/india/india1984a.htm" target="_blank"> resulting bloodbath</a> hundreds of lives were lost. Think Branch Davidian standoff in Waco albeit on a much larger scale. Five months later Indira Gandhi who was then the prime minister was gunned down by her own Sikh bodygaurds in retaliation to the Golden temple incident. After that all hell broke lose. The Hindus and Muslims went on a rampage murdering innocent Sikhs. I had friends who had to relinquish their turbans and shave their heads to avoid being slaughtered. It was one of the most shameful episodes in Indian history. And it didnt stop there, in 1985 an Air India aircraft was blown up in the sky off the coast of Ireland killing 329 people. Sikh extremists were recently convicted of this crime. I have used the term Sikh loosly. I am sure people understand that this term only refers to the group of Sikhs I am alluding to at that point.

Personally, I have many Sikh friends, they are warm, friendly people with a taste for life. They are known for their courage and penchant for humour. But I have little patience when one of them talks of self-determination and Khalistan.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: brahma ]</p>

99Percent

sikh: I do know that sikhs have been savagely slaughtered over the last twenty-five years.

Only the "last twenty-five" years? Consider yourself lucky! Anyway, don't let this fact sway you from own thinking. Wait, twenty-five years? Whats up?

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]</p>

Radcliffe Emerson

Hi Sikh. Nothing is wrong with Sikhism at all.
I think it's a pretty neat religion, actually.

I'm a Universalist/Unitarian. We basically believe in everyone's right to pursue whatever spiritual path they want, no one religion has the right to say it's the only way. I've read a little about the Sikh faith, and I think it's pretty cool.
We spend our services learning about different beliefs. I hope to attend a Sikh gathering, I'm told there is a place east of where I live I can visit.

Godless Dave

How come? All religions were new at some point.

Ron Singh

Sikhs have been persecuted for hundreds of years before that too by muslims. Thousands upon thousands have been massacred.

I am quite aware of Universal Unitarianism and I think that it's great. Personally, I dont think of Universal Unitarianism as a religion, more of a community. Nevertheless, I think that religious tolerance and understanding is a great thing.

Well I'm sorry that new things offend you.

Sakpo

Were they convicted already? Could you show a link, I'm suprised I missed this. I'm from/in British Columbia, where the conspirators were arrested and were presumably tried, I can't believe I missed this (it was a huge thing when they were arrested).
---

I look at Sikhism like any other religion, some people do good things with it and other people use it as an excuse to do evil, others do bad things in misguided attempts to do good.
Right now there's a big split that's been occuring between the moderate (read:sane) Sikhs and the really crazy ones in British Columbia. Big fights erupting and all that (invariably instigated by the nutters who think tables should be banned as elitist). Essentially it's a battle between those who want to live in the modern world and those who don't. It is important to note that many practicing Sikhs(uncut hair, no drinking, no smoking, etc etc) are to be counted among the liberals.

I know quite a few Sikhs and they're essentially like any other people. What's wrong with Sikhism, well the reason I won't become A Sikh is because it boils down to having faith without evidence, that's why I won't become a Sikh, but when it's practiced productivly I think it's a good religion with sensible values. One of my neatest memories from childhood was attending a Sikh wedding, it really stuck in my mind as being a lot less boring than a typical Xtian wedding.

Edited to add:

Essentially the main argument against Sikhism here is that we won't believe in it until we get actual evidence proving it's concepts regarding the existence of God to be true, and then more showing Sikhism has the right way to interpret and worship that God. But you won't find us attacking Sikhism in some sort of blind fury.

Btw, don't worry, I can guarantee you that Boro Nut was only kidding about attacking the Sikh boy in school (I'm not saying it was funny).

[ March 09, 2002: Message edited by: Sakpo ]</p>

hinduwoman

Sikh, in many cases the sikhs were being killed off by the Khalistan commandos themselves, for refusing to pay money. And there were usual cases of women being kidnapped. this is what turned the mass of Sikhs against them. It was the Sikh police who were responsible for breaking their backbone.