Anunnaki

We ARE marching for the Christians since it is they who are in the majority and conrtol our govt at the moment. Waving around Satanist stuff is gonna be like waving a red cloth in front of snorting bulls.

phlebas

I give up. You are clearly either not capable or unwilling to address my stated objections.

I am assuming, of course, that you believe that mainstream, run-of-the-mill Americans have researched it understand that "Satanism" is not "worship of Satan." The problem must lie with me -- I must be the only person left who thinks that this is not the case.

Just for the record, when I said "everyone" I was actually just generalizing and was not literally stating the beliefs of every man, woman, and child in the country. I meant "the majority." It's clear that you disagree with that, though.

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop bringing up Ellen Johnson. I *know* she has welcomed you and your group with open arms, lips, and legs. I simply don't care. If you want her opinions, read her emails. If you want mine, read my posts.

Good luck in your battle. I suggest you hire an editor for your web site.

Autonemesis

Speak for yourself.

Ryan, can I buy you a beer, or whatever it is you drink when you're having fun, when we meet in DC? If I can round up some ex-Mormons to come along, perhaps they could bring us some Pay Lay Ale.

Anunnaki

Kind Bud,please show me how I`m wrong.

We are having a march on Washington. It`s in Washington because thats our nations capital and it`s where our govt is located. We are trying to show our govt that we are here and we demand to be treated as equals. The majority of people in our govt are Christian and believe that Satan is a real entity that is at the root of many of our problems. These Christians in our govt as well as most others who live in this country are very superstitious and reactionary fools.

We are having this march to get the attention of our primarily Christian govt. How are we NOT marching for the Christians if this is the case? And how can it be benificial for us to wave around signs that make mention of the biggest villian in their imaginary religion?

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]</p>

Bible Humper

You honestly think that predicting that Joe Six-pack will think you are a devil worshipper because of the name "Satanist" is just us projecting our own biases?

You can see what we are saying quite easily if you want:

1)Go somewhere that people congregate

2)Introduce yourself to a group of these common Joes

3)Inform them that you are a Satanist, especially before you explain "LeVayian philosophy".

What do you think will happen if you do this?

Pretending that you don't think the name "Satanist" is going to cause misconceptions is a bit silly, IMHO.

RyanS2

Rock on. Concerning the rest of the questions:

1.) It seems strange how much projection is going on here. Where in the World did I indicate in print or otherwise that Satanists would show up waving around baphomets or any other such specifically occult paraphenalia? No where, yet many people here have made that assumption. I have plenty of things you can hang me with in writing, so I kindly request that you not make-up things.

2.) Michael A. Aquino and his "Setian" beliefs were accused, (in several books), of being part of a national conspiracy of Setian leaders, due to Michael Aquino's Lt. Col. rank in the Army, the fact that he has a Ph.D., and the fact that he was stationed in a Special Forces Unit. Most people, (in occultism) attribute it to his secrecy within the ToS and the fact that he chose an exotic label. He's written all about the ordeals he had to go through because of it, so I already know as someone who has been around the occult scene for years, the pay-offs, trade-offs, and side-effects. I doubt anyone else here can claim they have been around the occult for years.

3.) Even more amusing than that, people who have never been a member of the occult, do not deal with people questioning them on their beliefs, or interacting with people at large for occultism, proceed to tell me how "most" people view Satanism and occultism. It would be the quintessential same as if I walked into your work, told you don't know how to do your job, and that I'm better than you at it. Naturally, when you inquire as to how long I've been doing your job, and what makes me the expert, I can then claim omniscience and know everything about your job, even though you're the one who does it, day in and day out.

Star, I commend you on your excellent prose, lack of hostility, and your thoughts about the size of my genitals. Remember *you* people started talking about *me*, not vice versa. Even lamer than that, talked as if any of you are experts on the subject without ever even consulting me or asking for clarification on what *my* beliefs are, not your projection of what those beliefs are.

*You* people are the ones who made claims about finding stuff on my website that was not there, and now you're mad because I'm upset about it? Next time, look before you leap.

Concerning Webster's dictionary, it's like any dictionary. They are seeking to use a minimum amount of words to convey a general impression to a mass audience. It is a far cry from a specialist book, but I do know one that is a specialist book written by a non-Satanist.

"Satanism Today" by James R Lewis. Try it out, read it, see what you think.

Starspun

The discussion I was involved with on other threads did not mention *you* by name. (If it did, I did not see this.)

I am an expert in the field of media. Or, more specifically, radio. My concerns are not projections, my concerns are founded on my own experiences in the field of broadcasting.

Thanks for clarifying your position on banners in the march. That is all I wanted to know.

daemon

I give up.

Congratulations, Ryan, you win. Your obstinate refusal to listen to anyone's arguments and refusal to admit that anyone else might have a point has further reinforced my image of Satanists.

Autonemesis

What the people in government believe is irrelevant. They are our servants, not the other way around. Otherwise, I agree with your ideas about the purpose and location of the March.

As Ryan observed, this argument is a tempest in a teapot. Of course the media coverage of the March will be reactionary, and over the top. Is anything reported in the news NOT reactionary, and over the top? Just planning the thing has already pissed off the most reactionary elements, and we haven't even set one foot on the mall yet!

The Christians want us to shut up and go to church. We want to be treated as full citizens regardless of that. How does being nice and compliant and accommodating to their sensibilities (more accurately, your idea of their sensibilities) contribute to this aim?

It doesn't. It works against it.

I've said it before, and it bears repeating: if you want to avoid offending (reactionary) Christian sensibilities, then all you need to do is convert to Christianity, go to church and put money in the collection plate. You will get all the acceptance and adoration you could want if you just do that simple thing.

If you don't do that, no amount of supression of satanist slogans will achieve one inch of additional acceptance. What they need to know is that we will not be cowed into silence, and especially that we will not be cowed into doing their work for them by undermining our own support base.

[speling, grammar]

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

Bible Humper

ROFL, do you think we were born yesterday?

Joe Six-pack thinks that Satanists worship the christian devil, this is not something you can pretend isn't so. Your appeal to self-authority isn't adequate to convince us, LOL.

I can understand your wish to gain some acceptance and understanding of true Satanism, but expecting us to swallow blatant bullshit is not the way to go about it, and clearly shows how much respect you have for us.

Most people are not versed in obscure philosophies, tell Joe Sixpack that you are a Satanist and he will want to get away from you, if not kick the shit out of you. Call yourself "Setian", and he has no clue what the fuck you are talking about.