Freethought & Rationalism Archive

happyboy · 01-15-2003, 06:05 AM

waning moon conrad: if we got rid of religion, that would be one less thing that could be hijacked.

happyboy

Answerer · 01-15-2003, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by happyboy
you're missing my point, answerer. religion is dangerous because it can be twisted to easily, even a religion as pacifistic as buddhism. religion is dangerous.

happyboy

Hi happy, I was actually responding to seraphim's post.

Answerer · 01-15-2003, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim

My reply : You don't like killing and suffering, Answerer? Too bad ... because as long as you exist as a human, you do kill and you make others (and yourself) suffer. One example is human's diet where they kill and eat meat. That is killing and making other creatures suffer as well. Another example is your basic "I want to be the BEST" crap where you fight and try to move forward (by hook or crook) ahead of others.

Actually, what I don't like doesn't imply that I can't accept as a fact of my life. In addition, I don't think many people in the world will looking at sufferings and I'm more concerned with the spreading of false views.

Waning Moon Conrad · 01-15-2003, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by happyboy
waning moon conrad: if we got rid of religion, that would be one less thing that could be hijacked.

happyboy

What about philosophy? Shall we get rid of philosophy too?

Maybe we could start with Dialectical Materialism. There's an example of hijacked philosophy!

You can't get rid of religion. Look at post communist Russia. Look at Tibet. Look at post communist Mongolia.

In spite of the very best efforts by totalitarian regimes, it thrives. It thrives covertly or it thrives openly. Whatever. It thrives.

I think the best thing that can be pragmatically hoped for is a society where people have freedom of religion and freedom from religion and there is no fundamentalism.

monkey mind · 01-16-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim

My reply : Not true. Most of the Eastern society have distinction or varies status in a society where a person in a certain status will perform only one duty. In India, it is known as Caste system which comprised of 4 group based on 4 individual characteristics (which is now become one of the major problems in India due to Ego). In China, such system existed as well - putting scholars (instead of Monks like in India) as the person at the top. Monks in China usually considered to be a neutral part.
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Basically, what I meant was that to my knowledge, Cha'n (or Zen) wasn't a religion of warriors in China or India. Only in Japan did it have ties to a warriors code.

I don't really have an opinion on the caste system.

andy_d · 01-17-2003, 06:15 AM

Well, the Buddha was a warrior himself, you know.

Hinduthvaite · 01-17-2003, 10:03 PM

All systems of thought have known abuses. In some it is memetically built in and in others it is not. For example anti-semitism meme is built into the memetic makeup of Christianity. Fascism is not. Exclusivism is in the memetic kernel of Marxism, Christianity and Islam and hence their inquisitions. This memetic - behavior correlation can be used to see whether Zen Buddhism's role in Second World War is paert of its own (memetic) nature.

Zen was used just like a technology by Imperialists and the Imperialists themselves were Industrial age power mongers. Unlike Anti-Semitism that evolved in the fertile ground of Christianity Zen Buddhism does not have causal relation to Imperialism of power mongers or war seekers. It would be like saying nuclear physicists should apologize for arms race. It may be true to only some extent. Zen as the technology of the mind was used by Imperialists and who knows may again be used.

CuriosityKills · 01-18-2003, 09:34 AM

Post deleted. Apologies.

Waning Moon Conrad · 01-18-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hinduthvaite
Zen Buddhism does not have causal relation to Imperialism of power mongers or war seekers. It would be like saying nuclear physicists should apologize for arms race.

Now there's an interesting point.

Rusting Car Bumper · 01-20-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
Everytime a religious has contact with something that later proves embarrassing, followers claim that religion was misinterpreted. And it usually was. But then you have to wonder what the value of religion is if it is always being misinterpreted.

In that case whats the value of any idea system? Don't they all get misinterpreted similarly? This criticism can be levelled at almost anything.

Further, in the case of Zen Buddhism and WWII its a reeeaaal big stretch to say that Zen Buddhism was any significant influence to the war machine. It seems they went along with it just as Christians went along with Hitler.

DC

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01-15-2003, 06:05 AM	#21
happyboy Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on the border between here and there, WV Posts: 373	waning moon conrad: if we got rid of religion, that would be one less thing that could be hijacked. happyboy

01-17-2003, 06:15 AM	#26
andy_d Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: umop apisbn Posts: 568	Well, the Buddha was a warrior himself, you know.

01-17-2003, 10:03 PM	#27
Hinduthvaite Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nagercovil Posts: 24	All systems of thought have known abuses. In some it is memetically built in and in others it is not. For example anti-semitism meme is built into the memetic makeup of Christianity. Fascism is not. Exclusivism is in the memetic kernel of Marxism, Christianity and Islam and hence their inquisitions. This memetic - behavior correlation can be used to see whether Zen Buddhism's role in Second World War is paert of its own (memetic) nature. Zen was used just like a technology by Imperialists and the Imperialists themselves were Industrial age power mongers. Unlike Anti-Semitism that evolved in the fertile ground of Christianity Zen Buddhism does not have causal relation to Imperialism of power mongers or war seekers. It would be like saying nuclear physicists should apologize for arms race. It may be true to only some extent. Zen as the technology of the mind was used by Imperialists and who knows may again be used.

01-18-2003, 09:34 AM	#28
CuriosityKills Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 114	Post deleted. Apologies.

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