Darth Dane

"Thou art God" is from a Robert Heinlein book, called Stranger in a Strange Land. A very thought provocative book, which I highly recommend to everyone.


Does logic based on the first two assumptions make sense?


1) God Is
2) God is Everything (Included but not limited to(Put "God is" in front of all the words): Love, Hate, Reality, Unreality, Real, Unreal, Beautiful, Ugly, Good, Bad, Smart, Stupid, Homosexual, Heterosexual, Bisexual, White, Black, Conciousness, Unconciousness, Trancending, Concepts, Ideas, Thoughts, Feelings, Emotions, Higher Conciousness, Up, Down, Right, Left, There, Here, Nowhere, DNA, Possibilities, Impossible, Crazy, Artistic, Horrendous, Deities, Angels, Wrath, Rape, War, Peace, Animals, Plants, Cells, Muscles, Universal, Omniscient, Ominpresent, Omnipowerfull, Omniversal, Weak, Strong, Better, Best, Worse, Symbols, Sounds, Elements, Matter, AntiMatter, Time, Timeless, Eternal, Infinite, Finite, Life, Death, Dreams, Dreaming, Sleeping, Galaxies, Solarsystems, Stars, Suns, Planets, Continents, Countries, Cities, Houses, Walls, Beds, Concentration, Concentrated, Laughing, Smiling, Sulking, Fair, Unfair, Humans, Women, Men, Children, Babies, Them, Us, You, Me, I and on and on.... Whatever comes into your mind, put it in here and that will be God. In Short: God is Everything When God is everything, God equals everything, because everything is God)



Now Imagine this as a thought experiment, and that these two assumptions are True. Within this system, there is a Logic.

Now the first assumption, has to be made, so the thoughtexperiment can work. We Will Discuss God. For this to be relevant, We have to assume that God Is.
Ok, now we have decided that God Is, and we believe it.

God is in your Mind, That is the first thing in your mind, within this thoughtexperiment.

Then we Define what God is, we have to have something that God is.... Don't We?
Ok, Fair enough. I say that God is Everything, nothing more or less, so to say LOL.

An Example:

To God Time is Bunk so to say, because if God is Everything God must be the Past and the Present, and someone said that the Future doesnn't exist, well if God is the Past and the Present, The Present will "look" like the Future if Seen from the Past. This must mean That God is in fact, the Past, Present and Future, contained in ONE single Moment so to say. If God is All Three, humans sense of Time is an Illusion, because there is only Now. But Both Now and Time is, per definition God! So the Illusion is Both an Illusion and not an Illusion, Because "God is Everything", and the Above second assumption, contains Both "Illusion" and "Not Illusion"

Humans have conciousness. And how do we define ourselves? By Saying "I Am"

Examples:

I am a man
I am 26 years old
I am typing
I am thinking
I am laughing

And so on. But before we are anything, before we define ourselves, we say "I am"

What was our first assumption?

God Is

Since you are humans and have conciousness, and Both is God by the second assumption, You can say to each other:

"Thou Art God"

To your self:

I Am God

Per definition, God is Jesus and/or Jesus is God. Jesus Said "lift the stone and I will be there", "Love thy neighbor, as you Love yourself", "The Kingdom of Heaven is in your Hearts", "The Kingdom is at Hand", "Ask and you shall be given", "Seek and you shall find".

Per definition, God is The Bible and/or The Bible is God. God Said "Man is made in the image of God" which is true because: God is the image of Man.

I wonder what a bible for a dog would sound like: "Dogs are made in the image of God" Perhaps?

(1) is (2-1)
(1) is (1*1)
(1*1) is (2-1)

God is Love
God is Hate
Love is Hate

all is one


Since everything is everything and God is God we go back to the first assumption and say:

God is

Because no single word can contain what God is We cannot say anything about God.

This is the Void perhaps, from Buddha
Maybe God with Christians, Muslims, jews and so on...
Self-realization or God-realization with mystics, yogi's and so on

I may not be allpowerfull, but I still contain that which is God insisde! Maybe the last 90 % of the brain can be used for something new! (like clairvoyance and stuff of that more than normal things)


Within this system, is it Logical?



:notworthy





DD - The Divine Spliff

(Edited to add bookstore link. --d)

-DM-

"Is" is a linking verb. It has no meaning by itself.

It has no meaning whatsoever to say "God is."

In order for their to be meaning, you have to say something like "God is omnipotent."

In fact, there is an organization which advocates doing away with "is." Were we to do this, instead of "God is omnipotent," we would say simply, "God omnipotent."

You can see, then, that if we have a statement, "God is," and we do away with the "is" (which is useless without something to complete the statement), then we have simply, "God."

Thus the initial statement, "(1) God is," is meaningless as it is, and that statement renders moot that which follows that is based on it.

-Don-

diana

We also use the term to mean "exists." I took this as his meaning here.

d

curbyIII

1. God is.
2. God is everything.

This is a bit silly. All you have done is equated "God" with "Everything." In your system God is a synonym for Everything. If this is the case then God does exist. But so what? Replace the word God with Everything and you will see what I mean. Everything loves us, Everything is omnipotent, Everything has a son named Jesus who died on the cross for our sins. You see that it doesn't make sense.

Note that saying God is has nothing to do with him being conscious. I can just as easily say that arock is. That doesn't mean that that rock is conscious.

I'm pretty sure that the Bible is against clairvoyance and psychics. Exodus 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Darth Dane

"This is a bit silly. All you have done is equated "God" with "Everything." In your system God is a synonym for Everything. If this is the case then God does exist. But so what?"


I can say "I am" can I not? I can say "you are" can I not? Take shakespeare "To be or not to be" ---"I am or I am not" --- "God is or God is not" The point is that before we can say anything about God is that we can confirm that God "is" or "exists". Different symbols meaning the same thing.


"Replace the word God with Everything and you will see what I mean. Everything loves us, Everything is omnipotent, Everything has a son named Jesus who died on the cross for our sins. You see that it doesn't make sense."

Why doesn´t it make sense? Unless someone takes a dna , I couldn´t say for sure if you are your parents Child or not, and even then there is some doubt. How can we prove that the world wasn´t created old yesterday?

"Note that saying God is has nothing to do with him being conscious. I can just as easily say that arock is. That doesn't mean that that rock is conscious."

Under the second assumption God is also concious. And unconcious and higher concioussness. ALL of them is included here.
Why does all work? because right now it is dark and night in USA, however here it is daylight.

Someone sleeps in thailand, and someone is awake in Africa. God does all because God is everywhere. "lift the stone and I will be there" "cleave the wood and I will be there"


"I'm pretty sure that the Bible is against clairvoyance and psychics. Exodus 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.""

Do you know Edgar Cayce? American Clairvoyant who was very religious and christian, he found there was no opposition to re-inkarnation in christianity. He used his gift to great help for thousands of persons.
Besides, does the bible say what a witch is specifically? If not you or someone else is loading the word with your own interpretation. Next problem comes when Someone takes a torchlight to the people of those times, or a minidisk. would you be considered as the devils spawn?






DD - Clairvoyant Spliff

curbyIII

I think you are under the influence of something because you are not making any sense.

My point was that no one doubts the existence of "Everything" yet it is crazy to say that "Everything" is conscious. Consciousness is included in "Everything" but that does not make "Everything" conscious. Cats are included in "Mammals" but it is wrong to say that "Mammals" are cats. Also if your messed up logic is valid (which it's not) then God is also an evil sadistic bastard who wants to kill everyone (since these concepts are included in "Everything").

There is no scientific evidence that psychics are genuine (in fact there is a lot of evidence that they are not). Personally I believe they are all con-men/women and they are parasites and leeches of society. It would fulfil one my greatest fantasies if every psychic in the world dropped dead right now.

This is a forum about the existence of God(s) not the existence of psychic mumbo jumbo. So please restrict your yabberings about psychics to another forum.

diana

You mean this guy? What's your point?

This must be quite the troublesome biblical reference for the true believer if "does the bible say what a witch is, specifically?" is the best response you can muster.

Deut 8:10-11: There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

How do you define these terms so if doesn't look like those who wrote the bible believed in hokus-pokus?

d

Darth Dane

"CurbyIII"

"think you are under the influence of something because you are not making any sense."

Ah well it will one day No offense of course, I have tried my logics on others as well, and so far only few have greasped my thoughts. Don´t get alarmed, I didn´t understand at first either!


"My point was that no one doubts the existence of "Everything" yet it is crazy to say that "Everything" is conscious. Consciousness is included in "Everything" but that does not make "Everything" conscious. Cats are included in "Mammals" but it is wrong to say that "Mammals" are cats. Also if your messed up logic is valid (which it's not) then God is also an evil sadistic bastard who wants to kill everyone (since these concepts are included in "Everything"). "

The point is that God is a symbol. Which is part of all of us. By the soul or something, the symbol of God is within us.

"Cats are included in "Mammals" but it is wrong to say that "Mammals" are cats" -Yes if you end the recitation of that which is a mammal. But a cat is part of that categorization, and thus is not a false statement as long as we don´t exclude everything else that is a mammal.

Your point with conciousness, which is a important part of all of this:
Some Tibetan munks say that all of manifestation is made up of "mind". Is it fair to say that Mind is conciousness?
Yogi´s say that the highest that everrything is a part of is "The Absolute concioussness". So yes even a rock has conciousness, although not one we can acces, as communication between human and rock is rather difficult. But Some say they can "talk" to nature and so on, how do they communicate and can you prove conclusively that they are wrong?


"There is no scientific evidence that psychics are genuine (in fact there is a lot of evidence that they are not). Personally I believe they are all con-men/women and they are parasites and leeches of society. It would fulfil one my greatest fantasies if every psychic in the world dropped dead right now."

You yourself is a psychic. Have you ever known who was ringing before you picked up the phone, any other "premonition"?

"This is a forum about the existence of God(s) not the existence of psychic mumbo jumbo. So please restrict your yabberings about psychics to another forum."

I am not discussing psychics as such, but they are part of my argument are they not? 2) God is everything



"diana"


My point is, that he was a devout christian or some sort, and was afraid that his new discovered powers would be against the church and bible.
He found that it was not in contrast to the teachings of Jesus (but maybe the teaching of the church if you see the difference)

"This must be quite the troublesome biblical reference for the true believer if "does the bible say what a witch is, specifically?" is the best response you can muster."

Since I am not a scholar of biblical texts, I must apologize my lack of knowledge on some subjects. Same with rocketscience, I know only sparsely what is contained within that sphere of knowledge.

"Deut 8:10-11: There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. "

This text says, that you cannot find any with other abilities than "normal".

"How do you define these terms so if doesn't look like those who wrote the bible believed in hokus-pokus?" -Obiviously they did. You cannot talk of something you don´t have any knwoledge of!


But Jesus did an awful lot of things that falls into that category, but he wasn´t a warlock, Nooooo he was the Son of God. How do I discern between the two? How can I know that Jesus is not the person in front of me, disguised and testing me?

Thats why the 2nd assumption is as it is, because evryone is saying that God is like this and like this, but some seem in contradiction. So to be on the "safe" side I must assume God can be everything that is. I mean he talked from a burning bush! And through that which resembles ANY human being. Well untrue, Jesus was a man, so that rules out women! Which I don´t consider to be true!





DD - Conciouss Spliff

diana

DD,

My point was that you perhaps shouldn't believe everything you read about him. I see no reason to believe he had "powers" of any kind.

I read There Is A River, too. Very powerful and moving stuff--written by a friend, who believed the stories and wanted to world to remember Edgar Cayce as the most incredible, infallible "prophet" of modern times. However, the book is written from an obvious bias and offers no primary sources to back up the wonderful stories.

I even wonder if Cayce himself was this religious, or if the "read the bible once for every year of his life" theatrics, etc, wasn't just something written in by the man who wanted to world to remember Cayce and saw the chance for a little pious fraud.

Granted. But as with rocket science, the information about the bible is out there, if you only take the time to do some research.

First, I misspoke. It's Deut 18--not 8.

Two things about what I quoted are misleading: (1) I used the default KJV, and (2) I didn't give you context. My apologies. I'll remedy that problem now:

From the NRSV, Deut 18:9-12:
The text says you will drive out anyone who fits these descriptions out of your midst. It admits that such creatures do exist, in the opinion of the writers, and that they will be driven out because they offend God.

Okay. You lost me here. But I confess I haven't figured out what your major argument is yet. (Or if I am understanding you, it is essentially meaningless: God is everything? What does this prove? Setting one word equal to another that was working perfectly fine by itself doesn't get us anywhere.) I was just pointing out a couple of flaws that I saw.

d

Gurdur

*sigh*
It is often better to get on with normal life than to get stoned and imagine one's burblings have any cosmic significance
---- Sayings Of Gurdur

Something may be logical within itself if it is protected from the facts and supported by butchering the language. This doesn't make it a good foundation for your life
---- Sayings Of Gurdur

God is dead. Why the hell does everyone want to be a God ?
--- Pet Peeves Of Gurdur

Robert Heinlein was only an imaginative flack. Donald Kingsbury and Terry Pratchett are far better.
--- More Pet Peeves Of Gurdur