Mad Kally

A very intelligent man who wasn't afraid of thinking.

Eric Starnes

Wow, i leave the thread alone for a day and look what you guys have done to it. Would those who have sidetracked the discussion into clinical depression/chemical imbalances please take it to a different thread. I have much contempt for the "mental health" system in America and i might even join you in the thread to discuss it. I am going to go eat now and i will be back in a couple of hours to contine the discussion.

Eric Starnes

I would like to thank everyone for their responses, you have given me much to think about. I guess what it comes down to is that without a supernatural element to the universe i have to accept that eventually me, my family, friends and everything i hold dear will eventually die or succumb to the second law of thermodynamics. I envy you who can accept that, ignore it or whatever it is you do to get yourself out of bed in the morning but i simply cant. The thought that nothing i do, good or evil(whatever that means), will really matter in the end is simply overwhelming. If i have to abandon reason and reality to make this life liveable then that is what i am going to do.

I wish that my parents had given me a religion when i was growing up. It would have made my life so much easier. I could have been just another hypocritical christian(or whatever) accepting just enough religion to aviod having to think about these things and then going on with my life. The more i think about it the more crule this world seems. We are born to die. We just sit arround entertaining ourselves, and working while we wait for one of our organs to fail. Yes, this is a wonderful existance isnt it.

Ignorance must be bliss.

At least i hope it is because reality is crap.

pz

This is ridiculous. If reality is crap, if the universe is really such a horrible place, then what difference does it make if you delude yourself? You'd just be living a lie.

You would be far better off educating yourself and learning to appreciate an honest image of the real world. There are some of us who are completely aware of our mortality, yet it does not leave us miserable.

Eric Starnes

The difference would be that i wouldnt have to deal with the reality of my situation. It might be a lie, but it is a mostly harmless lie. I think its sort of like telling someone you know is fatally injured that they are going to be alright. You know that their situation is hopeless, but you give them hope. Isnt that what religion does?

I have been educating myself all my life, and it has lead me to a hopeless view of the universe. What is there to appreciate a world where everything will eventually destroyed. I am currently in college and putting significant effort and energy into implanting certian data into my brain. I find myself constantly wondering why i bother. My brain will soon weaken and decay destroying the product of all that effort. My body will follow not long after.

Care to enlighten me as to how you deal with it?

Bumble Bee Tuna

OK, so you're having sex, and everything is fun. Time of your life. Do you stop and think 'Oh no! Eventually, I'm going to stop having sex! Since at some point in the future, I'm going to not be having an orgasm, there's no sense in me bothering to have one now...'? Of course not! You just enjoy yourself. It doesn't matter if good things will stop happening sometime in the future- That doesn't change the fact that good things are happening now. You have to enjoy what you have.

-B

lpetrich

This reminds me of Plato's "royal lie" theory of religion.

In his Republic, he proposed banning his society's sacred books from his ideal city, because they contain such bad examples as heroes lamenting and gods laughing. In their place would be a religion he called a "royal lie" -- a religion designed to "demonstrate" the legitimacy of the city's rulers.

Magus55

Not to get into Pascal's wager here but...

Since we don't ultimately know the truth about the afterlife, it is just as constructive and meaningful to put effort into seeking God as it is to learn as much knowledge as you can.

If you just seek to gain knowledge and deny God, and atheists turn out to be right - you just decay and all that knowledge goes to waste as does seeking for higher meaning outside of our mortal existance. If theists turn out to be right, then you gain more than knowledge and science could ever offer.

Not that anyone agrees with it, but I just can't imagine a world without God. I don't believe that the complexity of the universe happen by chance on its own and I don't believe there is nothing higher than ourselves to search for. What is the point of life for an atheist? Just to learn all you can about a self-destructing, sick, disgusting world only to lose it all in a measly 70 or so years? Talk about depressing. To me, science just can't explain the complexity and vastness of the universe we live in. There is no point for the world to exist on its own.

And its not like humanity is getting any better. Humans are getting worse. More violent, more sick, more inhumane etc. evolutionary wise, you would think we would be improving. Sure we have greater science to do good things, but we seem to put more energy into technology that kills and destroys.

The idea that after suffering on this sick, hopeless planet with the only thing to look forward to being nothingness just doesn't make it seem like there is any point bothering. There is no future to look forward to for having to endure all the pain and hardship on earth. Murderers and dictators get away with their crimes on humanity with no ultimate justice.

Living in a world with no God is pointless.


To Eric:

While its great if you are sincerely seeking meaning outside and above our existance. Approaching Christianity with the attitude of what the heck, why not be a hypocrite so i can be ignorant and happy isn't a great way to go about it. God knows your every thought and motive. Just declaring you are a Christian to fit in may help you on earth, but won't necessarily after death. Your desire to know God and what he offers has to be sincere and honest, without selfish motives of if i say im Christian, everything will be great for me.

The truth is, God doesn't gaurantee happiness on earth. Earth is foreign to Christians, we don't belong here. It's only our temporary home until Jesus comes to take us to our real home. Christians are often looked down at and hated because of that. Jesus said that they hated him first, so they will hate us [christians] too. But God is always there for you if you sincerely seek him, even if its sometimes hard to tell. God offers a great sense of peace to us. Knowing that death isn't the end for us is comforting and gives meaning and hope.

Eric Starnes

Hmm, someone finally agrees with my view of the world, but only in theory because they are actually a christian. I am not sure what this means but i feel that there is something important to be learned from it. hmm...

Well thats the best i can do right now. If/when i decide to commit intellectual suicide maybe then i can try to be a "true" christian.

I am counting on it.

ju'iblex

Living in a world with no God is pointless.

i resent that, if anything my life has more meaning without some mystical fictional faerie flying over me and commanding my every action <sic> just because of some 2000 year old rotting vellum. I live for art, i live for knowledge and i live for now because im not setting myself up for false hope of some afterlife. My life is filled with those things which i am passionate about, im aware of my mortality, very much so, but c'est la vie when i die. And most importantly, im not constrained to some obselete ancient moral system that would dearly love to make me feel guilt at every turn and to prevent me from truly obtaining that contentment that i strive for everyday with every action i take.

And then i die, and i recycle atoms back into the earth and my ash will fertilise some plant. Why am i content with this? I dont believe in any gods, in any afterlife, i dont think im going anywhere but the ground. This means to me total equality, no matter the morals or values, wealth or achievements, you all turn into dead organic matter <or adipocere as the case may be>.

And why am i content to lose everything i achieve, the memories, the lifetime of work? Because i know everything is ephemeral, especially happiness. carpe diem. and, i'm not happy terribly often, i know to seize the opportunity and not to take it for granted. that may not be enough for anyone else, but my interests keep me going. i dont need to be remembered, so long as i know i have lived a quality life and fulfilled my wants, its fine by me.

Life without god pointless? never. i have everything i need.