Iasion

Greetings all,

River made some wild claims about the "perfection" of the Quran.

The history of the Quran's formation shows it is anything but perfect -

1. The Quran was not finalised until well after Mohamed's death
2. Much was lost at Yamama
3. Variant Qurans existed in the early days
4. The variants were different to modern Qurans
5. Abu Bakr collected his version from scraps and memories
6. Abu Bakr's version faded early from importance
7. Uthmann chose Abu Bakr's version for political expediency
8. Utmann et al made changes to the new version
9. Muslims criticised Uthmann for destroying the Quran
10. Muslims crticised the new version as missing passages
11. Later changes were made to the Quran
12. Variant readings of the Quran exist to this day

This all goes to show the Quran is a book made by people who chose between different versions, added to it, changed it, left out parts etc. etc.

Any argument based on the "perfection" of this text is just laughable.


Details follow :


Quran not written down or finalised during Mohamed's lifetime

The Quran was not collected in writing in Mohamed's time :

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: Abu Bakr as-Siddiq sent for me when the people of Yamama had been killed. Then Abu Bakr said : "... you should search for the Qur'an and collect it ". By Allah! ... Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?"... (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p.477).

A great part of the Quran was only recited shortly before Mohamed's death :

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah sent down his Divine Inspiration to His Apostle (saw) continuously and abundantly during the period preceding his death till He took him unto Him. That was the period of the greatest part of revelation, and Allah's Apostle (saw) died after that. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p.474).


This shows that the Quran was not collected or written down, or finalised before Mohamed's death - the Quran only formed years after Mohamed.


Some of the Quran was lost to posterity :

Many passages were lost at the battle of Yamama :

Many (of the passages) of the Qur'an that were sent down were known by those who died on the day of Yamama ... but they were not known (by those who) survived them, nor were they written down, nor had Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman (by that time) collected the Qur'an, nor were they found with even one (person) after them. (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.23).

This loss of some of the Quran inspired Abu bakr to begin collecting it.


Other Qurans existed in the early days

The variant Quran of Salim existed before Yamama and before Abu Bakr's (Zaid's) version (Salim was killed in the battle) :

It is reported ... from Ibn Buraidah who said: "The first of those to collect the Qur'an into a book was Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifah". (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.135).

(This contradicts the claim that Abu Bakr collected the first Quran.)


Abdullah ibn Masud was considered the foremost authority on the Quran by Mohamed - his Quran was used in Kufa in Iraq.

The Quran of Abu Bakr (first Caliph) passed to Umar (2nd Caliph) then to Hafsah (daughter of Umar and "wife of the prophet"). Hafsah became a recluse and kept the Abu Bakr Quran hidden away. During this period there is no evidence that this version was considered more important or accurate than other versions such as Abdullah ibn Masud's or Salim's - on the contrary, it was left unpublicsed and kept away from public view.

The Quran of Ubayy ibn Ka'b was favoured inSyria.


The Quran was collected from scattered memory and written materials

Following the losses at Yamama, Abu Bakr is generally considered the first to collect the Quran :

It is reported ... from Ali who said: "May the mercy of Allah be upon Abu Bakr, the foremost of men to be rewarded with the collection of the manuscripts, for he was the first to collect (the text) between (two) covers". (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.5)


Abu Bakr entrusted the collection of the Quran to Zaid bin Thabit :

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: Abu Bakr as-Siddiq sent for me when the people of Yamama had been killed. Then Abu Bakr said : "... you should search for the Qur'an and collect it ". By Allah! ... Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?"... (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p.477).


Zaid had to collect his version of the Quran from many scattered and different sources :

So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it from palm-leaf stalks, thin white stones, and also from the men who knew it by heart, ...

Significantly, some passages were recovered from only ONE source :
...till I found the last verse of Surat at-Tauba (repentance) with Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p.478).



Disputes about different versions of the Qurans lead to the first official version

About 20 years after Mohamed, an expedition under Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman, made up of fighters from various regions, lead to disputes about different versions of the Quran.

Uthmann (3rd Caliph) then selected one version and had the rest DESTROYED :

Hudhaifa was afraid of their differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to Uthman, 'O Chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before'. So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa, saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you'. Hafsa sent It to Uthman. Uthman then ordered Zaid ibn Thabit, Abdullah bin az-Zubair, Sa'id bin al-As, and Abdur-Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of the Quraish as the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p.479).

The reason for one Quran being chosen over the others was to prevent dissension - the version chosen was Abu Bakr's which had been hidden away for some years while other versions flourished. This shows one version was chosen for political expediency, not because it was the best version.


Abdullah ibn Mas'ud resisted this decree as his Quran was considered most authentic :

Abdullah ibn Mas'ud said, "I recited from the messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs which I had perfected before Zaid ibn Thabit had embraced Islam". (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.17).

"I acquired directly from the messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs when Zaid was still a childish youth - must I now forsake what I acquired directly from the messenger of Allah?" (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.15)

Early Muslims criticised Uthmann for "obliterating the Book of Allah" (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.36). At-Tabari wrote (1.6.2952) that Uthman was criticised : "The Qur'an was in many books, and you have now discredited them all but one"


It is clear that Uthmann had the new version changed in places :

Narrated Anas (ra): 'Uthman called Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin az-Zubair, Sa'id bin Al-'As and 'Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham, and then they wrote the manuscripts (of the Qur'an). 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi persons, "If you differ with Zaid bin Thabit on any point of the Qur'an, then write it in the language of Quraish, as the Qur'an was revealed in their language". So they acted accordingly. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol.4, p.466).

This is not just changes in dialect pronunciation, as vowel points were not yet used - it means actual changes to the wording.


Those 2 verses found with ONLY Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari were apparently added to the Quran as a result of Khuzaima's initiative, under the later direction of of Uthmann:

Khuzaimah ibn Thabit said: "I see you have overlooked (two) verses and have not written them". They said "And which are they?" He replied "I had it directly from the messenger of Allah (saw) (Surah 9, ayah 128): 'There has come to you a messenger from yourselves. It grieves him that you should perish, he is very concerned about you : to the believers he is kind and merciful', to the end of the surah". Uthman said "I bear witness that these verses are from Allah". (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.11).

It seems Zaid initially left out these verses, and then added them when Khuzaima reminded him of them and Uthmann agreed they should be added.


Zaid admits to another passage being added at this later stage :

Zaid said 'I missed a verse from al-Ahzab (Surah 33) when we transcribed the mushaf (the written text of the Qur'an under Uthman's supervision). I used to hear the messenger of Allah (saw) reciting it. We searched for it and found it with Khuzaimah ibn Thabit al-Ansari: "From among the believers are men who are faithful in their covenant with Allah" (33.23). So we inserted it in the (relevant) surah in the text. (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.138).

This all goes to show how chance and human errors and opinions contributed to the late formation of the Quran.


Textual problems with Utmann's recension :

One of the standardised Suras (2.238) was disputed in early times :

Abu Yunus, freedman of Aishah, Mother of Believers, reported: Aishah ordered me to transcribe the Holy Qur'an and asked me to let her know when I should arrive at the verse Hafidhuu alaas-salaati waas-salaatiil-wustaa wa quumuu lillaahi qaanitiin (2.238). When I arrived at the verse I informed her and she ordered: Write it in this way, Hafidhuu alaas-salaati waas-salaatiil-wustaa wa salaatiil 'asri wa quumuu lillaahi qaanitiin. She added that she had heard it so from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him). (Muwatta Imam Malik, p.64).

Here, Aishah stated that the prophet had added the phrase "and the afternoon prayer", but this phrase is lost from the standard Quran. (Hafsah also had her scribe add this phrase.)

This variation is also recorded by Abdullah :

It is reported by Abdullah on the authority of Muhammad ibn Abdul Malik who reported from Yazid (etc.) ... It is written in the codex of Hafsah, the widow of the Prophet (saw): "Observe your prayers, especially the middle prayer and the afternoon prayer". (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.87).

The variation is also recorded by Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Umm Salama and ibn Abbas.

This is thus SIX early attestions that a passage is MISSING from the Quran of today.


The Quran of today is not complete :

It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: "Let none of you say 'I have acquired the whole of the Qur'an'. How does he know what all of it is when much of the Qur'an has disappeared? Rather let him say 'I have acquired what has survived.'" (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524).

Pasages have been lost or removed from the Quran :

We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: "If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust". ( Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501).


About a century after Uthmann, al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf made eleven consonantal corrections to the Quran :

Altogether al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf made eleven modifications in the reading of the Uthmanic text. ... In al-Baqarah (Surah 2.259) it originally read Lam yatasanna waandhur, but it was altered to Lam yatasannah ... In al-Ma'ida (Surah 5.48) it read Shari ya'atan wa minhaajaan but it was altered to shir 'atawwa minhaajaan. (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p.117).


Variant Qurans still in use

There are many DIFFERENT Qurans in use today - this is due to the lack of vowel points in early Arabic, meaning a written word can be read in varying ways. There were several early "Readers", and the way the book was recited by a Reader was recorded by various "Transmitters" - given several "transmissions" of the text.

The following list shows the commonly accepted versions (Reader -> Transmitter) and where they are used :

The Seven :

1. Nafi -> Warsh (Algeria, Morocco, parts of Tunisia, West Africa and Sudan)
Nafi -> Qalun (Libya, Tunisia, parts of Qatar).

2. Ibn Kathir -> al-Bazzi
Ibn Kathir -> Qunbul

3. Abu `Amr al-'Ala' -> al-Duri (parts of Sudan and West Africa)
Abu `Amr al-'Ala' -> al-Suri

4. Ibn `Amir -> Hisham (Parts of Yemen)
Ibn `Amir -> Ibn Dhakwan (Parts of Yemen)

5. Hamzah -> Khalaf
Hamzah -> Khallad

6. al-Qisa'i -> al-Duri
al-Qisa'i -> Abu'l-Harith

7. Abu Bakr `Asim -> Hafs (general use)
Abu Bakr `Asim -> Ibn `Ayyash (general use)


The Three :

8. Abu Ja'far -> Ibn Warden
Abu Ja'far -> Ibn Jamaz

9. Ya`qub al-Hashimi -> Ruways
Ya`qub al-Hashimi -> Rawh

10. Khalaf al-Bazzar -> Ishaq
Khalaf al-Bazzar -> Idris al-Haddad


Iasion

Jesse

This isn't really a matter for Science & Skepticism, so I'm moving it to Biblical Criticism & History.

Iasion

Greetings Jesse,

Thanks,
I wasn't sure which forum to post in (and I was responding to River in the other forum).

Perhaps this forum could be renamed so as to better include Islam etc?

"Scriptural Criticism and History"
"Religion and History"
"History of Religion"
?

Iasion

Peter Kirby

This forum embraces all historical and exegetical issues concerning the Bible, its predecessors, and its descendants. Islam is a major descendent in the Abrahamic tradition, as is Mormonism. A predecessor would be Zoroastrianism. Discussions of non-Abrahamic religion and philosophy (including history of those faiths) belongs in the forum moderated by Grizzly. Discussions of theological/atheological points belong in General Religious Discussions.

I will put this info in the sticky thread.

best,
Peter Kirby

Iasion

Greetings Peter,

thanks for your help :-)

I just thought the word "Biblical" might make Muslims think their religion didn't belong here...

Iasion

River

Greetings Iasion

The Suras reported by Ibn Mas'ud in Ubayy ibn Ka'b's mushaf were not really suras but instead Ka'bs personal qunat ( in prayers)


To this a reference was made by al-Qadi in al-Intisar, when he said: The words of qunut reported to be recorded by Ubayy ibn Ka'b in his mushaf, could never be proved to be revealed Qur'anic verses but they were only some mode of supplication... as had they been of the Qur'an they would have been reported in the same way as a Qur'an whose veracity was established for all. Also they might have contained some of the Qur'anic words of earlier verses, permitted to be used in supplication while being merged with non-Qur'anic words.All this was never confirmed to be narrated by him, but it was reported to be recorded in his mushaf. He is known to have recorded in his mushaf other than the Qur'an such as supplication and interpretation (ta’wil).


If you have further questions please read the following link


http://biphome.spray.se/hyla/legacy/07.htm




P.S There is an erroneous hadith of weak chain of transmission that says that Aisha had 2 additional Suras beneath her bed ...but the " dog ate it".....kinda like " the dog ate my homework" argument. If you are easily satisfied by this as a means of solid evidence, then my friend, you appear to be satisfied quite easily.

River

CORRECTION. These are not 7 ways of " reading" the Qur'an. These are in actuality 7 different ways of "pronouncing " the Qur'an. So, the definition of the word " Variant" belies the true fact that these are actually special ways of vocalizing the Quran and not evidence of a Textual Variant.

River

- Iasion


If there exists a Koran with 2 extra Suras....then produce it . You can't merely state that they were destroyed. Scholarship is based on Evidence. And you have no evidence to Yield.

Aerik Von

Islamic extremists have murdered many who claimed or produced any form of varient. In a religion of such vitriol it's unlikely any of these copies would exist still.

Also, I have read varient translations - does that count or is there another excuse for this.

River

There is Only One Arabic Qur'an ....and Islam is not vitriolic by nature.