Answerer

Well, I tend to think of the wheel as Samara and that hamster as anyone of us who lived their entire life, believing that the material world is reality.

Seraphim

by Answerer

Well, I tend to think of the wheel as Samara and that hamster as anyone of us who lived their entire life, believing that the material world is reality.

To someone like an Atheist ... material world is a reality.

To a christian and Muslim, Material world is needed in order to gain access to an higher level of existence.

To me ... the Wheel is simply two part ... one on top and one below - Life and Death, Existence in one realm, and existence in another.

Wheel of Life goes up - you will live (happy or not is different matter).
Wheel of Death goes up - you will cease to exist (whether you will be accompanied by beautiful women in paradise or roast like a turkey in hell is not important).

To an atheist, Life and Death is simply your life and when you past away, your children's life. What are you going to strive for now (to live) is what you will leave your children when you past away.
For those who don't have children or don't attend to have one, it is simply what you which to strive for. Worthy goal or not is no concern of anyone but yourself.

Why burden yourself with what going to happen in an afterlife IF your life now is in a mess?

victorialis

That's why I don't trouble myself about reincarnation. This is the life I can operate in now. Now is where my obligation lies.

If reincarnation is a fact, I meet it best by making the most of my opportunity for considered action -- which will always and only be in the present, regardless of justice and injustice.

If reincarnation is just a comforting story to draw the poison out of a sense of injustice -- or a cautionary tale to make me take thought for my actions -- well, I was doing that already.

Complacency always wears off!

The material world isn't good or bad -- it helps us focus. And it illustrates things for us, things that are good to understand.

Seraphim

by victorialis

That's why I don't trouble myself about reincarnation. This is the life I can operate in now. Now is where my obligation lies.

If reincarnation is a fact, I meet it best by making the most of my opportunity for considered action -- which will always and only be in the present, regardless of justice and injustice.

You forgot something ... the actions (ALL of it) which have you taken has two side ... good AND bad and you will be taken account for those actions, whether you like it or not.

I was in a Theists forum where a Muslim told me that the concept of Reincarnation is unfair because you have to be reborn over and over again (like an Hamster except it changes the wheel which it was on). I told him/her that the concept of Karma and Reincarnation doesn't apply to Afterlife alone, it also applies to this life.

Past Life (Your forefather's) - Actions which taken by your forefathers, their knowledge and their philosophy.

Present Life (yours) - actions you have taken/taking, your knowledge and your philosophy.

Future Life (your children or your society) - actions which they will take, the knowledge they will gain and their philosophy.

All three is linked. You are now living your life like this (no offence attended) because of your forefather's inability to provided your with adequate answers and their blind faith.

And since you are living like this and will contribute the same inadequate answer and close-minded approach to life, your children will follow your example and it will continue to the next generation and so on.

So, you see ... Karma and Reincarnation doesn't apply to Afterlife alone ... the messy situations which current world is facing IS a direct result of your forefather's actions and you are not doing anything which is different to your forefathers.

If reincarnation is just a comforting story to draw the poison out of a sense of injustice -- or a cautionary tale to make me take thought for my actions -- well, I was doing that already.

Complacency always wears off!

I will persume also that the Hamster I saw few days ago was very happy running around in circle ... maybe even consider that it is actually going to reach somewhere as well.

The material world isn't good or bad -- it helps us focus. And it illustrates things for us, things that are good to understand.

Good or Bad is in your mind ... based on your emotions and your attachment, NOTHING else.

victorialis

Seraphim, I agree with your description of karma and the fact that it is active now, not just in the past or future. You said it better. My meaningful interaction with karma is in the present, whether I am conscious of its exact origins or not. In this way, past, present and future are all one.

To look at karma as some sort of odd bookkeping system of deferred payments is not as useful. But it often seems to be misunderstood in precisely that way.

Seraphim

Thank you ... and Thanks to the Hamster as well :P (maybe I should adopt one ...).

Live life for now, but remember that there is a future (your children's to be exact).

Live life for now, but don't forget the mistakes of our forefathers ... because Humans have this attendencies to repeat the same mistakes Over and Over and Over and Over (like an Hamster).

victorialis

Agreed! Not to live mindfully is not to be fully alive.

Waning Moon Conrad

I'd see it as a metaphor for sentient beings transmigrating in samsara.

Seraphim

by Waning Moon Conrad

I'd see it as a metaphor for sentient beings transmigrating in samsara.

Explain please ... Thank You.

Waning Moon Conrad

The hamster in the wheel. Putting in effort but ultimately getting nowhere. I presume you've seen the Buddhist diagram known as the Wheel of Life or Wheel of Samsara?