Freethought & Rationalism Archive

cheetah · 12-31-2002, 01:08 PM

I cannot believe what I just got in the mail! A handwritten letter from a lady that apparently lives a few neighborhoods over talking about her concern for the violence in society and how she wants to reconnect with neighbors. Fine. But, then she starts talking about why there is violence, according to the Bible and there are two Bible tracts in the envelope. She ends the letter without talking anymore about the violence that is supposedly the topic of her letter, but invites me to contact her to discuss God further!

I mean, we have received pre-printed tracts before on our doorstep and one sad time a little boy came to my door and put a sales ad for bibles there for me and I wanted to call out to him and save him from the brainwashing. Perhaps the worst was on a flight to North Carolina when a little girl was going up and down the aisles passing out little cards that she called IQ Tests. It was a long boring flight, but I should have known better than to accept IQ tests from a little girl on a plane. She was with her daddy who I am sure was very proud of her. of course, the IQ tests were things like"How do you read this sentence?" "nowhereisgod" On the back it tells you how many people might read it No Where Is God, but it is really Now Here Is God. Stupid stuff like that. Anyway, I am getting sidetracked.

The letter. I am thinking of writing her back and saying something to the effect that I don't believe violence in our society can be solved by believing in fairy tales, especially fairy tales of a war mongering deity (maybe not the words war mongering, but something to show that that god is violent and it is ironic that she would turn to him to solve violence in society). I also thought about including "tracts" of my own, pointing out inconsistencies or violence of the bible/her deity. I don't know this lady at all, and who knows what it would start. I am not an in-the-closet-atheist, but I have only taken opportunities with my family to be vocal. This could be my first. What do you all suggest?

daria · 12-31-2002, 01:34 PM

I'm not sure of the address(es) anymore, but I'm pretty sure there are anti-tracts online that you may print for just this purpose. If you're feeling really creative and have the time, you could parody the very tracts she sent you.

Whatever you decide to do, I think a reply is certainly warranted, whether you decide to refute the things she said directly or just remind her that not everyone on the block is a god-fearing bible-loving believer. Keep us posted as to what you decide to do.

The Other Michael · 12-31-2002, 03:03 PM

cheetah,

why not write back to her and tell her that you are concerned about violence in your community, and you started out being interested in seeing what she had to say in her letter that might have been of help in solving the problem.

But then mention how saddened you were to find it was all a sham on her part, just a method of tricking concerned people into reading her religious sales pitch.

By taking this tack I'd think she comes across as the dupliticious and insincere person playing tricks on others, rather than allowing her to feel righteous if you just flame her.

You can always flame her later if needed.

cheers,
Michael

GaryP · 12-31-2002, 08:00 PM

Non-tracts from freedom From Religion Foundation.

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/

Dark Jedi · 01-01-2003, 10:34 PM

Question: Was it mailed, as in stamped, addressed and delivered by the postman?

If not, you have the option of charging her with mail tampering. It's illegal to put anything in a mailbox that ain't yours, unless you are the mailman.

Put her in the pokey for 20 years with all those religious prisoners. Obviously, religion means no violence, so she should be safe....

cheetah · 01-04-2003, 08:14 PM

I finally got around to a reply. GaryP, thanks for the link. I read the information with interest, but beacuse it may take a month or more to receive my order of any of the tracts, I chose not to use them for this time. I did find some to use on the Rev. Jim Huber's site (www.jhuger.com) that are free for personal use and printed out both "kissing Hank's Butt" and "Questions for Bible Thumpers" to send.

Here's my draft. Please give me your comments! BTW, the last paragraph is almost exactly hers, but flipped back on her, regarding the genuine concern and loving the opportunity to speak further with her. Also, I wrote "my life partner" just because I thought it would give a conservative christian another good hissy. Anyway, enjoy and critique! But do it soon, please as I will be sending in Monday's post.

"Thank you for writing concerning escalating violence in our neighborhood and in our world today. My life partner and I are also troubled by this trend and how it can be effectively reduced and resolved. However, we were saddened to find that your letter actually did not propose to discuss ways to resolve this violence or work toward a more peaceful community, but was a thinly-veiled solicitation for your religion.

My partner and I do not believe that fairy tales and dreams will solve the problems of today. We certainly do not believe that fairy tales of a war-mongering deity such as your god (aka God, YHWH, Elohim) may bring any solution to problems of violence. Indeed, over much of recorded history, violence has been committed on behalf of your deity (the Holocaust, the Inquisition, and the Crusades are just three of the more famous examples). Each of these atrocities were acts of terrorism on a scale such as to dwarf the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. So, no, I will not join you in worship of your false deity.

We found and read the tracts you included in your letter. Similarly, I have included some tracts for you to read. I share this information with you because I am genuinely concerned about our neighbors that place blind belief in an obviously error-ridden text that lacks any corroborating evidence of the existence of this god. I would love an opportunity to speak with you further about Bible errancy, contradictions, and atrocities. Please feel free to contact me at the address below.

Sincerely,"

edited to add:
it was mailed by US Post, so no prosecution is possible. Thanks for the other suggestions, I definitely agreed about playing up her deceitful angle. Not sure if I pushed that home hard enough, but...

cheetah · 01-04-2003, 08:18 PM

Hmm, I am also thinking of adding something more about Sept. 11, to indicate that I found them to be one of the most awful things ever, even though they still weren't on such a huge scale as other Christian acts of terrorism. I think this might be important due to the tendency of Christians to believe atheists are not patriotic or do not care about Americans being killed...

Derec · 01-04-2003, 08:52 PM

Here is an interesting anti-tract about the "Jesus fish" that is quite common on cars around here.

http://www.minitru.org/llf/sf.html

UMoC

The Admiral · 01-05-2003, 06:04 AM

Cheeta

I'm a member of FFRF and I would bet that your tracts will be mailed to you the day they get the order. You'll have them very shortly.

The Admiral

The Admiral · 01-05-2003, 06:10 AM

Cheetah

Sorry about the mis-spelling, I think your return letter was excellent.

The Admiral

12-31-2002, 01:08 PM	#1
cheetah Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,118	Random religious letter in the mail I cannot believe what I just got in the mail! A handwritten letter from a lady that apparently lives a few neighborhoods over talking about her concern for the violence in society and how she wants to reconnect with neighbors. Fine. But, then she starts talking about why there is violence, according to the Bible and there are two Bible tracts in the envelope. She ends the letter without talking anymore about the violence that is supposedly the topic of her letter, but invites me to contact her to discuss God further! I mean, we have received pre-printed tracts before on our doorstep and one sad time a little boy came to my door and put a sales ad for bibles there for me and I wanted to call out to him and save him from the brainwashing. Perhaps the worst was on a flight to North Carolina when a little girl was going up and down the aisles passing out little cards that she called IQ Tests. It was a long boring flight, but I should have known better than to accept IQ tests from a little girl on a plane. She was with her daddy who I am sure was very proud of her. of course, the IQ tests were things like"How do you read this sentence?" "nowhereisgod" On the back it tells you how many people might read it No Where Is God, but it is really Now Here Is God. Stupid stuff like that. Anyway, I am getting sidetracked. The letter. I am thinking of writing her back and saying something to the effect that I don't believe violence in our society can be solved by believing in fairy tales, especially fairy tales of a war mongering deity (maybe not the words war mongering, but something to show that that god is violent and it is ironic that she would turn to him to solve violence in society). I also thought about including "tracts" of my own, pointing out inconsistencies or violence of the bible/her deity. I don't know this lady at all, and who knows what it would start. I am not an in-the-closet-atheist, but I have only taken opportunities with my family to be vocal. This could be my first. What do you all suggest?

01-04-2003, 08:14 PM	#6
cheetah Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,118	here's my potential reply I finally got around to a reply. GaryP, thanks for the link. I read the information with interest, but beacuse it may take a month or more to receive my order of any of the tracts, I chose not to use them for this time. I did find some to use on the Rev. Jim Huber's site (www.jhuger.com) that are free for personal use and printed out both "kissing Hank's Butt" and "Questions for Bible Thumpers" to send. Here's my draft. Please give me your comments! BTW, the last paragraph is almost exactly hers, but flipped back on her, regarding the genuine concern and loving the opportunity to speak further with her. Also, I wrote "my life partner" just because I thought it would give a conservative christian another good hissy. Anyway, enjoy and critique! But do it soon, please as I will be sending in Monday's post. "Thank you for writing concerning escalating violence in our neighborhood and in our world today. My life partner and I are also troubled by this trend and how it can be effectively reduced and resolved. However, we were saddened to find that your letter actually did not propose to discuss ways to resolve this violence or work toward a more peaceful community, but was a thinly-veiled solicitation for your religion. My partner and I do not believe that fairy tales and dreams will solve the problems of today. We certainly do not believe that fairy tales of a war-mongering deity such as your god (aka God, YHWH, Elohim) may bring any solution to problems of violence. Indeed, over much of recorded history, violence has been committed on behalf of your deity (the Holocaust, the Inquisition, and the Crusades are just three of the more famous examples). Each of these atrocities were acts of terrorism on a scale such as to dwarf the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. So, no, I will not join you in worship of your false deity. We found and read the tracts you included in your letter. Similarly, I have included some tracts for you to read. I share this information with you because I am genuinely concerned about our neighbors that place blind belief in an obviously error-ridden text that lacks any corroborating evidence of the existence of this god. I would love an opportunity to speak with you further about Bible errancy, contradictions, and atrocities. Please feel free to contact me at the address below. Sincerely," edited to add: it was mailed by US Post, so no prosecution is possible. Thanks for the other suggestions, I definitely agreed about playing up her deceitful angle. Not sure if I pushed that home hard enough, but...

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-31-2002, 01:34 PM	#2
daria Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: VA Posts: 146	I'm not sure of the address(es) anymore, but I'm pretty sure there are anti-tracts online that you may print for just this purpose. If you're feeling really creative and have the time, you could parody the very tracts she sent you. Whatever you decide to do, I think a reply is certainly warranted, whether you decide to refute the things she said directly or just remind her that not everyone on the block is a god-fearing bible-loving believer. Keep us posted as to what you decide to do.

12-31-2002, 03:03 PM	#3
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	cheetah, why not write back to her and tell her that you are concerned about violence in your community, and you started out being interested in seeing what she had to say in her letter that might have been of help in solving the problem. But then mention how saddened you were to find it was all a sham on her part, just a method of tricking concerned people into reading her religious sales pitch. By taking this tack I'd think she comes across as the dupliticious and insincere person playing tricks on others, rather than allowing her to feel righteous if you just flame her. You can always flame her later if needed. cheers, Michael

12-31-2002, 08:00 PM	#4
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	Non-tracts from freedom From Religion Foundation. http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/

01-01-2003, 10:34 PM	#5
Dark Jedi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Afghanistan Posts: 4,666	Question: Was it mailed, as in stamped, addressed and delivered by the postman? If not, you have the option of charging her with mail tampering. It's illegal to put anything in a mailbox that ain't yours, unless you are the mailman. Put her in the pokey for 20 years with all those religious prisoners. Obviously, religion means no violence, so she should be safe....

01-04-2003, 08:18 PM	#7
cheetah Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,118	Hmm, I am also thinking of adding something more about Sept. 11, to indicate that I found them to be one of the most awful things ever, even though they still weren't on such a huge scale as other Christian acts of terrorism. I think this might be important due to the tendency of Christians to believe atheists are not patriotic or do not care about Americans being killed...

01-04-2003, 08:52 PM	#8
Derec Contributor Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 15,686	Here is an interesting anti-tract about the "Jesus fish" that is quite common on cars around here. http://www.minitru.org/llf/sf.html UMoC

01-05-2003, 06:04 AM	#9
The Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Racine, Wi. USA Posts: 768	Cheeta I'm a member of FFRF and I would bet that your tracts will be mailed to you the day they get the order. You'll have them very shortly. The Admiral

01-05-2003, 06:10 AM	#10
The Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Racine, Wi. USA Posts: 768	Cheetah Sorry about the mis-spelling, I think your return letter was excellent. The Admiral

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.