bob_the_god

sorry about the spelling iam dyslexic
Iam a new comer to these forums, although i have been an athiest since i was 12 (those were the days!), i have never really got into the whole historicality of Jesus until i read the arguements and counter arguements of the thiests and athiests. But i believe that someone that Jesus was based on must be true because there is very little (if any) fiction in the ancient world, even stories such as Atlantis were presented to be true to prove moral points. Fiction was not really around as a recodnizable genre until the invention of the printing press. So my point is that i seriously doubt there was some Palestinian Jew sitting in his room creating a whole character, and who would be foolish enough to place it in relatively recent times??, if i were trying to make up that i had a Millionare ansecstor i would not say that he lived in the 1960's no i would say he was around along time before that. So the bare bones of the story (i mean the barest bones) must be correct, but for such a mythology to emerge the character must be significantly earlier, and i believe we have come up with nothing is because Jesus is a title not a name and Josepheus would not have called a blasphemer Savoior, could it be possible then that Paul wrote about a man who was basicly a spiritual manifestation and then some inventive story teller got out the old story and added some modern people to it (i.e Pilate and John the Baptist).

Toto

Where do you get this idea? The modern novel was not around, but fiction, story telling, myth making were there. How would you classify the Homeric Epics if there was no fiction?

Vorkosigan

Fiction has long been a recognized and exploited genre.

Here is course lists and info from a major university on the topic:
<a href="http://web.uvic.ca/calendar2001/CDs/GRS/CTs.html" target="_blank">http://web.uvic.ca/calendar2001/CDs/GRS/CTs.html</a>

For Roman authors, see writers like Lougus, Petrouius, and Apuleius.

Michael

bob_the_god

I believe that the illiad and Odyseey were based on real events although they are very exagerrated. but my main point is that Fiction was a lot rarer than it is today (except in Classical Civilisations). Look at the Anglo-Saxons all of their liteary output (Apart from the myhtological Beowolf) were epic poems telling semi-real events. Although Jedeha was offically part of the classical world it was not particularly hellenized (howver that is spelt), it was not a Greek place it was still a rather odd place. Even quite a lot of Greek fiction was based on semi-real events i.e the morality plays on the fate of Menylaus etc.

spin

bob_the_god: "I believe that the illiad and Odyseey were based on real events although they are very exagerrated. but my main point is that Fiction was a lot rarer than it is today (except in Classical Civilisations). Look at the Anglo-Saxons all of their liteary output (Apart from the myhtological Beowolf) were epic poems telling semi-real events. Although Jedeha was offically part of the classical world it was not particularly hellenized (howver that is spelt), it was not a Greek place it was still a rather odd place. Even quite a lot of Greek fiction was based on semi-real events i.e the morality plays on the fate of Menylaus etc."

What the speck of truth is in each riddle however is often beyond any of us to know. There is a speck of truth behind the exodus story: it's a rehashing of the expulsion of the Hyksos, by someone using Manetho for propaganda against Egyptian Jews.

That there may be real events somewhere behind myths usually doesn't help us very much.

There was a lot of Hellenistic influence in Judea. The calendar later accepted by the Pharisees was a Seleucid import used for administrative purposes and later extended to the religious realm. The Joseph novella is thought to closely relate to Greek models, as do the genealogies in Gen.10. The Hasmonean kings used two names a Hebrew one and a Greek one. The Greek free association seems to be the underlying form of the organization outlined in the Dead Sea Scrolls (as well as the haburot).

There was an obvious backlash against the Hellenizing influence because of the crisis 167 - 164 BCE, but that was largely overcome by late Hasmonean times. Herod was ostensibly a Greek despot, who founded numerous Greek cities in Judea.