beachbum

alek0

How about a link to this other board? I got involved with a few young folk on another board and offered some helpful ideas until I was banned. I wouldn't mind trying again.

owl
Sounds like it is time for you to find a new town.

Godless Dave

They all recognize that the cleansing crystals are superstitious BS, but they can't see that their prayers are just the same. So very, very sad.

Darwin's Finch

I just don't understand why fanatical Christians even bother breeding. After all, Jesus is returning soon.


Any minute.


Really.

Godless Dave

I'm suprised they can operate computers, much less raise children.

Mageth

Whoa a bit here.

"Fanatical" christians aren't necessarily bad parents, as seems to be implied by some here. I was raised in a fundie home, and while I've had to deal with that upbringing, neither I nor any of my siblings turned out sociopathic.

I would suspect sexual/physical abuse (not limited to the homes of "fanatics"), or possibly even a physical brain dysfunction, lies at the heart of the kid's problems.

The problem with the fanaticism in this case, as others have sated, is that it appears to be hindering both parents (one with fanatical xian, one apparently with some "new age" views) from getting professional psychiatric help for the boy. Prayer is useless, and homeschooling is as well (and probably detrimental; at least in a public school a teacher might pick up on the problems and intervene).

Samhain

*Sigh* Once again, Nothing Fails Like Prayer. This makes me sick to my stomach. In response to Mageth's statement that all fundies are not necessarily bad parents...
I would personally put most of these people offering advice, and definately the person with the child under the category of "Fanatic" not fundamentalist. Thinking that God will solve all of your problems doesn't settle well with many xtians (IMO), but these people are just blind to reality. It's apparently obvious to some that pyschotherapy is what is needed before prayer, but those who say that her family should go back to traditional xtian family values, or should just leave the problem to the "Lord" obviously are suffering from some form of delusion or idiocy. People like this aren't fit to live, since they obviously aren't living in reality and as we can see, are a danger to those around them (not only that, but their blind faith ignorance will cause them to reject change at all cost, knowledge does not come to these people). This example perfectly shows the potential threat that religion poses when taken to the extreme of this fanatical form, I doubt that the best psychoanalyst in the world would be worthy of treating their child if he wasn't a xtian. Nietzsche and Marx both expressed religion as a prison of thought and action, and, in this situation, who could reject this accusation?

Mageth

Samhain:

I don't think there's a set definition of "fanatical christian." Many liberal xians would probably label my parents "fanatics" in a sense (believe in laying on of hands, healing, speaking in tongues, etc.) but my parents don't consider themselves fanatics. There are other xians which my parents would consider fanatics.

The parents/friends in question here match up, in their beliefs, with many xians which I would consider fundamentalists, not "fanatics." After all, the bible does recommend prayer, laying on of hands, etc. for the "deliverance" of people who were described as demon-posessed but we now know were mentally disturbed.

Nevertheless, I consider it a fanatical position on our part to classify all parents whom we would consider as "fanatics" as being automatically bad parents.

This example perfectly shows the potential threat that religion poses when taken to the extreme of this fanatical form

I don't think what I've read about these people comes near to qualifying as "the extreme of this fanatical form."

And this:

People like this aren't fit to live

is IMO definitely a fanatical statement.

Samhain

Of course, Mageth, you realize much of what you said regarding my post has been taken out of context. My opinion on the unfitness to live was only to be regarded with their unwillingness to choose their own actions, to be blind and dumb sheep lead by their invisible sheperd. I did not say we should kill them because of their beliefs, or that some harm should befall them as a result of their prayers. All I'm saying is that they are a waste of space and a potential harm to those around them since they obviously rely on unreliable sources to solve all of their problems. This is an extreme fanatical form IMO since it shows complete lack of ability to act upon their lives, even with a potentially dangerous problem. They "leave it to God" to give them the answer and this is unacceptable even for the normal xtian. You should only "leave it to God" when you've exhausted every other alternative and you have nothing more that you can really do. You don't "leave it to God" for every problem that you have. You must seek some kind of help before you put the decision in "God's hands."

Mageth

I don't think we can deduce that extreme of a view about the people in question. I suspect their problem may well be as much ignorance or human nature as "fanaticism." Many people don't recognize or refuse to recognize mental illness in those around them, whatever their religious beliefs. There's no indication in what I've read that if someone would enlighten the parents' ignorance or force them to address the issue (e.g. a pediatrician recommending they take him to a psychiatrist or alternatively prescribing medication) that they would not do so. You seem to conclude that they would not do the right thing for their son under any circumstance, which is something none of us know.

That said, don't get me wrong, I understand what you're saying, and absolutely agree that their proper response would be to seek qualified professional help for their son (before or while praying, if they so wish). However, IMO, "leaving it to god" by praying about it is not a fanatical position, it's a fundamental position, as the bible instructs believers to take everything to god in prayer. Not that I think it's right.

Sad thing is, if someone (metaphorically) whacks them upside the head and gets them to seek professional help for their son, they'll give god the credit and testify that he answered their prayers.

All I'm saying is that they are a waste of space...

Again, statements like "People like this aren't fit to live" and the above come across to me as a bit fanatical. I personally don't think this kind of rhetoric speaks well for "our side."

[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

Samhain

I don't have a problem with any of this at all. The point is that they do not seem to be making the effort regarding the circumstances. It should be agreed through common sense alone that the child's thoughts and feelings warrant some kind of professional advice. This truly is abnormal and odd in a child this age, and to not see this for what it is or what it potentially can be shows a lack of common sense on their part. I wouldn't care if they claimed it to be "God's will" if they sought professional help and recieved it. The child's case needs some kind of professional opinion, and they won't recieve it sitting on their asses and praying. If they choose to warrant the help as God's will after the child recieves help, then more power to them, as long as they use their brains enough to get this kid some kind of help if he truly does need it. My views may be extreme regarding waste of space, once again, your opinion is taken out of context. I find it hard to suffer such stupidity in the world, though.