Stephen T-B

Discussing the reality of Noah and the Flood is as stupid as discussing the reality of Sleeping Beauty.
Every aspect of the story is absurd: that EVERY species in the world was on board;
that a craft large enough to accommodate them, and their food, was built of wood, by one man and his family; that such a craft wasn’t wrecked by the inundation or made uninhabitable by excrement; that enough water appeared from nowhere to cover the whole Earth to the height of Mt Everest, and then vanished; that all the races of mankind were descended from Mr and Mrs Noah; that this couple and their boys carried all the germs which subsequently killed millions upon millions of human beings; that a god would have been so imbecilic as to carry through such a crazy plan. (Well, he’d created the Earth, the Heavens, the sun and the moon and all of life in just six days so why not just blow it all away, if things weren’t working out, and start again?) etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.
The myth only makes sense in terms of the people who wrote it down, and for whom they wrote it down. They did not know that the world was somewhat larger than a fairly small area of the Middle East. They did not know that there are mountain ranges compared with which the highest mountains they knew of are mere foothills. They thought they and their immediate neighbours were the only humans on Earth, and they thought the creatures they were familiar with were the only creatures (probably not more than 20 or 30 species.)
People living in the 21st century who think that the Biblical story is the account of a real event, yet have access to most, if not all, of the relevant areas of accumulated knowledge, demonstrate that in some minds, Magic is more powerful than Education; wishful thinking displaces rational thought, and the demarcation between fantasy and fact cannot be distinguished.
As we have seen, presenting rational arguments to someone who rejects rational thought is a complete waste of time (as someone else has remarked.)

nescio

For me, this quote made plodding through this thread worthwhile. Thanks, CALDONIA. <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

ApostateAbe

The frustation can be overwhelming, Stephen-B, but I will remain optimistic. My life testifies that reason can have a persuasive effect on even the most rigid fundies. And I don't believe I am not the only one.

Part of the frustration must come from not seeing immediate results with those you are arguing with. I do not expect Frivolous to ever admit he is wrong in this discussion. But my goal is to plant a seed of doubt that will blossom in time, most likely a matter of years.

ApostateAbe

Stephen T-B

Frivolous is described as a student.
A student of what: How to Believe the Unbelievable Without Hardly Flinching?

Or something more esoteric, like Fundamentalist Incoherence as a Device for Irritating Atheists?

Sandslice

BornOK: The reason that the Noah's ark story is under dispute is actually found later in the same bible which holds the tale. Something from the Second Epistle of Peter. From chapter 3 (KJV)
&gt;&gt;5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:&lt;&lt;

These gems are found two verses after the infamous "scoffers of the last days" polemic.

Also, a certain argument from Jesus.

Mark 10: &lt;&lt;6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.&gt;&gt;

I think there are others; the point is, if the Genesis accounts are not inerrant, then (according to certain YEC's) the whole house of cards which is xianity will come down.

At least, I think this is the case.

Frivolous

I concede defeat.

The redistribution problem coupled with the hereditary deformities from inbreeding, and all the animals foods are problems that i cannot comprehend possible to be solved without divine intervention.

thanks. i think

now let me alight from this stage without complete and unforgiving ridicule. but i can feel it coming anyway...

Stephen T-B

Well, well, Apostate!

Darwin's Finch

No ridicule from me, Frivolous. I commend you for having the courage to admit that you were defending the indefensible when it would have been easier just to slink off and pretend it didn't happen. Perhaps now you understand why we take such a dim view of Biblical literalists/inerrantists.

You may not know it now, but the house of cards has begun its slow-motion topple. You may not end up an agnostic or atheist, but you will never again be able to look at the Bible in quite the same way. Don't freak out about it. It's a necessary aspect of growth. Congratulations.

thebeave

That was very brave to admit Frivolous. You have garnered much more respect from myself and others by recognizing it as a myth, rather than either running away or remaining defiant beyond the point of absurdity, which seems to be the MO of most defenders of the ark story. Hopefully, in time, you will come to recognize that Noah's ark is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Biblical myths.

[ December 06, 2002: Message edited by: thebeave ]</p>