Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Muffinstuffer · 05-15-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea
I hope you recognize that it is NOT EVEN ABOUT those who screw it up.

I would be interested in your comments about Adam and Snikta. Adam is a "good" wealthy person. It is STILL insulting for him to try to tell Snikta she would be happier if she just took her kids to daycare and got a job.

Please tell me you see that.

Oh I see it.

I also see that the posts in this thread are reproducing like bunnies

and I'm at work so I'm slow, plus at times I get taken totally away from my desk with NO warning, so if it takes me even a half a day or so to respond, that is why.

Muffinstuffer · 05-15-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea
Take, for example, how incredibly insulting I think we all agree it would be for a wealthy person to keep harping on a poor person that they would JUST BE HAPPIER if they would just pay more attention to material things. Adam (the wealthy person) is SO HAPPY and GENUINELY wants Snikta (the poor person) to be happy, too. And ALL IT TAKES is being more focused on earning and saving money! What IS Snikta thinking when she decides to be a stay-at-home mom and live on a shoestring. How can she POSSIBLY not see the WONDERFUL favor Adam is doing her by trying to EXPLAIN how HAPPY he is being wealthy?

See - a teeny little bit - how those "good intentions" might come across? [/B]

I definitely can. But, by the same token, I've never met someone who is filthy stinking rich (and I live in Williamsburg, VA, so I do know a few) and is GENUINELY happy. Or, if I HAVE, the result of their happiness is almost always a focus on something ELSE - saving the environment, serving at soup kitchens, helping at church, etc.

But yes, I do get your overall point.

Muffinstuffer · 05-15-2003, 11:22 AM

Holy smacks! 21 posts on my first try! Hot dog.

Taffer · 05-15-2003, 11:22 AM

I have good intentions when I try to approach a christian with atheism as well. I'm trying (in my very subjective, arrogant and possibly flawed opinion) to release them from the burden of surperstition and relieve them of baseless fears. Why won't christians appreciate that?
On the other hand, I do realize that belief in hell is a very good reason to start preaching.

My christian friend (well, not so friendly any more) insulted my atheism with every second sentence whenever I discussed it with him. I don't think he even realized that, even when I pointed the occasional jibe out to him . . .

Rhea · 05-15-2003, 11:25 AM

No problem with slow replies, I just wanted to include discussion about whether you see that it is NOT ABOUT whether the christian is "good", but whether it is rude to presume you have _anything_ *right* with respect to another person's life.

Most of the atheists I know are HAPPY. HAP. PY. Happy.

No one seems to believe us.
It can be infuriating.

Muffinstuffer · 05-15-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taffer
I have good intentions when I try to approach a christian with atheism as well. I'm trying (in my very subjective, arrogant and possibly flawed opinion) to release them from the burden of surperstition and relieve them of baseless fears. Why won't christians appreciate that?
On the other hand, I do realize that belief in hell is a very good reason to start preaching.

My christian friend (well, not so friendly any more) insulted my atheism with every second sentence whenever I discussed it with him. I don't think he even realized that, even when I pointed the occasional jibe out to him . . .

Now see, in this example, I agree with you, at least as far as the civility and jokes go. I for one DO appreciate the attempts by my atheist friends. That of course does not equate to me appreciating their actual beliefs, or agreeing with how they live their lives, but I guess my point is that even when I'm online, or when I'm in real life, I try to conduct myself with charity or civility. This doesn't even have all that much to do with my belief set. I just know I get a favorable response from it.

And insults don't really get those of either side too far when they're trying to get their points across. I guess that's my overall point.

Muffinstuffer · 05-15-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea
[B]No problem with slow replies, I just wanted to include discussion about whether you see that it is NOT ABOUT whether the christian is "good", but whether it is rude to presume you have _anything_ *right* with respect to another person's life.

I knew what you were getting at, and yes, I see that.

Quote:

Most of the atheists I know are HAPPY. HAP. PY. Happy.

No one seems to believe us.
It can be infuriating.

Oh come on. Admit it. You're unhappy.

<------ Joke

Starboy · 05-15-2003, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Muffinstuffer
And insults don't really get those of either side too far when they're trying to get their points across. I guess that's my overall point.

Thanks you for that, but I hope you may have learned that atheists live in a society that constantly bombards them with religious sentiments and even the most well intentioned attempt to bring them god is just another assualt.

Starboy

Godless Dave · 05-15-2003, 11:34 AM

I would also like to add that the assumption, by a stranger, that I need any kind of help is in itself insulting.

For Wildernesse: I've lived in my current house for three years and I've only gotten two missionary visits in that time. Also, twice when I was working in fast food someone handed me tracts or invited me to their church.

Muffinstuffer: I don't want to stereotype, but it seems to me that any discussion with other sailors is going to involve profanity.

Muffinstuffer · 05-15-2003, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave
Muffinstuffer: I don't want to stereotype, but it seems to me that any discussion with other sailors is going to involve profanity.

Sailors? Profanity? Surely you jest.

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05-15-2003, 11:22 AM	#23
Muffinstuffer Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mountain Home, AR Posts: 199	Holy smacks! 21 posts on my first try! Hot dog.

05-15-2003, 11:22 AM	#24
Taffer Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bern, Switzerland Posts: 348	I have good intentions when I try to approach a christian with atheism as well. I'm trying (in my very subjective, arrogant and possibly flawed opinion) to release them from the burden of surperstition and relieve them of baseless fears. Why won't christians appreciate that? On the other hand, I do realize that belief in hell is a very good reason to start preaching. My christian friend (well, not so friendly any more) insulted my atheism with every second sentence whenever I discussed it with him. I don't think he even realized that, even when I pointed the occasional jibe out to him . . .

05-15-2003, 11:25 AM	#25
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	No problem with slow replies, I just wanted to include discussion about whether you see that it is NOT ABOUT whether the christian is "good", but whether it is rude to presume you have _anything_ right with respect to another person's life. Most of the atheists I know are HAPPY. HAP. PY. Happy. No one seems to believe us. It can be infuriating.

05-15-2003, 11:34 AM	#29
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	I would also like to add that the assumption, by a stranger, that I need any kind of help is in itself insulting. For Wildernesse: I've lived in my current house for three years and I've only gotten two missionary visits in that time. Also, twice when I was working in fast food someone handed me tracts or invited me to their church. Muffinstuffer: I don't want to stereotype, but it seems to me that any discussion with other sailors is going to involve profanity.

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