Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vicar Philip · 02-24-2003, 04:17 AM

My cell phone battery is dead, and she left several more messages over the night. Her second to last one, she finally said "please" would I call, but of course I didn't hear it because my phone is off and I was asleep in the station bean-bag chair (not the most comfy bed, I'll tell you!).

Anyway, in her next message she said she wasn't going to destroy anything, but was going to take my stuff to my mother's house where I could pick it up. I sent her an e-mail and told her she must not want me to come back home too bad, if she's resorting to this after only one night.

I guess I'll see if she responds to the e-mail. I'm not hopeful.

HelenM · 02-24-2003, 04:26 AM

VP. when this happens that your wife wants to talk and you're mad at her, I suggest that rather than not responding at all, you tell her as clearly as you can "I will talk to you provided that you stop using threats and ultimatums. Let me know when you're ready."

Anyway, I hope today is a better day for you. Oh, I saw you just posted this morning...

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicar Philip
My cell phone battery is dead, and she left several more messages over the night. Her second to last one, she finally said "please" would I call, but of course I didn't hear it because my phone is off and I was asleep in the station bean-bag chair (not the most comfy bed, I'll tell you!).

Anyway, in her next message she said she wasn't going to destroy anything, but was going to take my stuff to my mother's house where I could pick it up. I sent her an e-mail and told her she must not want me to come back home too bad, if she's resorting to this after only one night.

I guess I'll see if she responds to the e-mail. I'm not hopeful.

No offense but - why don't you tell her what you want instead of saying what you think she wants?

Helen

Vicar Philip · 02-24-2003, 06:39 AM

Helen,

When I told her I wanted to participate in the small men's group, I WAS telling her what I wanted. Since this didn't agree with her perceived requirements for me in this church, my suggestion was immediately rejected.

This seems to be getting nastier and nastier, as her reply to my e-mail was typical for her. Vengeful and nasty. She now plans to bring my belongings to my place of work. That should be quite a display. Boy will I be proud when she shows up and humiliates me in front of my co-workers.

Proxima Centauri · 02-24-2003, 06:53 AM

[COLOR=orange-red]Sorry, there's not much I can add. Usually when you stand up to her she later backs down.
If she shows up in fromt of your co workers that could help show any Divorce Court that she is unreasonable and not fit to be sole guardian of the children. I hope things get better again.

If you can't stay with your wife try and focus on the good things in life, the peace without the rows. Try and focus on sorting your life out as a single person.If you can stay with her it'l be back to square one. [/COLOR]

Godless Dave · 02-24-2003, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicar Philip
Boy will I be proud when she shows up and humiliates me in front of my co-workers.

Just think of them as future witnesses at your child-custody hearings.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicar Philip
We get a half mile down the road, and she starts in again. "So, is this how you're going to be? All calm, cool, and collected? Well, why not? It worked with the pastor, didn't it? Acting all timid?"

This reminds me a little bit of my ex. People who respond to conflict with loud histrionics get even more upset when the other party refuses to respond in kind.

HelenM · 02-24-2003, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vicar Philip
Helen,

When I told her I wanted to participate in the small men's group, I WAS telling her what I wanted. Since this didn't agree with her perceived requirements for me in this church, my suggestion was immediately rejected.

It's interesting she seemed to have panicked that you could 'ruin' the church. I guess she thinks you're quite good at persuading others into your way of thinking!

Quote:

This seems to be getting nastier and nastier, as her reply to my e-mail was typical for her. Vengeful and nasty. She now plans to bring my belongings to my place of work. That should be quite a display. Boy will I be proud when she shows up and humiliates me in front of my co-workers.

If they are reasonable they'll attribute her behavior to her and not you. If I saw a co-worker's spouse bringing in their belongings I wouldn't attribute 'blame' to the co-worker. All it would tell me is that their relationship is not going well at present. I wouldn't assume that it was the entire fault of one spouse or the other; my sympathies would probably be with the co-worker since the spouse was the one taking extreme action.

So, if she really does it it might have the benefit of you finding out (through their reactions) whether you have any co-workers who share your perspective on things, which could increase the level of support you have 'in real life'. Maybe one will invite you to stay in their spare bedroom while tempers cool and you'll have a more comfortable place to sleep than the station...

take care
Helen

Vicar Philip · 02-24-2003, 08:33 AM

I don't think things are improving. Here's part of an e-mail she just sent me:

Quote:

You proved to me just how much I mean to you. So, let's just stop now. I'll do what you want to do but can't. I'm letting you go. I am tired, really tired and I can't do this anymore than you can. You need someone who can accept you as you, not as how they want you to be. You are correct, I don't accept you nor will I ever. You know me pretty well after almost 16 years. I don't do or say anything that I don't mean. You're correct things will go good for a while then I'll accuse you of something and we'll be back at this point again. So, instead of you abandoning me or the kids. I'm just going to end this quietly and civil. Don't come back home. It's not yours. Don't come back to me. I'm not yours either. We're not friends anymore. We haven't been for a long time. I am sorry. It is all my fault. Don't write again. I don't want to read it. I'm not really going to extremes. I'm just being truthful. Sometimes, the truth hurts. Sometimes,someone needs to just say it or to just do it. So, it's done. I'm not fighting anymore. Get a lawyer. Do what you want. Let me have the Children, that's all I ask. You can have the rest.
me

Vicar Philip · 02-24-2003, 08:38 AM

This was my response:

Quote:

THIS IS NOT WHAT I WANT!!

Is it really impossible for you to accept that I don't believe in God THE SAME WAY YOU DO???? Did you not listen to a SINGLE THING PASTOR K SAID?

This is NOT what I want.

This is the reply I got:

Quote:

Should've thought about that last night. Maybe you should've came home. Maybe you shouldn't have talked to me the way you did. Maybe you shouldn't have left. I'm glad that you went to Pastor K. You needed to talk to someone who was on your level. I have never been. I'm not even going to pretend that I have been.

I wonder what Pastor K would say about what happened last night? Oh, that's right. He'd say- "Now, you knew that he was coming back. He left ALL of his clothes there. He even left his most prized possession- his guitar! You shouldn't be upset. You shouldn't feel like he did the same thing to you as your parents did all those years ago. Darren had every right to not tell
you where he was. He had every right to not come home. He needed a breather. But alas, Darren is not your parents. You have to move on. Get over it."

Well, I don't want to get over it. I don't want it to happen again, that's all. I'll make sure that it doesn't. I can't imagine how you'd feel if I had ever done that to you. Aw heck, being a Martin, it probably wouldn't bother you. You'd sleep all night. You wouldn't call every 15 min. You wouldn't hear the keys jingling, being put up on the hook. Waking up to find out that you'd only slept 5 min and it was a dream. You wouldn't sleep on my pillow all night so you could smell me.

Heck, I don't need you. I've got your pillow- It smells like you & is soft, and lets me cry into it. Geez, what was I thinking, I even have a bed warmer! Boy, I am a silly girl, ain't I???

Where ever you slept last night- you can stay there again. I don't want you to hold me. I don't want it.
Thanks for writing.
me

For the first time in my marriage, I feel that it is truly over.

Darren

Godless Dave · 02-24-2003, 08:53 AM

I'm really sorry, Darren. And she still doesn't seem to acknowledge that it's her behavior that's driving you away.

Do NOT let her keep the children. Do everything you can to get as much custody as you can. Not out of vindictiveness, but for their well being. One day she will start screaming at them the way she screams at you.

brighid · 02-24-2003, 08:54 AM

I am at a loss for words. It seems she is searching for excuses here, all the while she admits she is wrong. Gosh, she sounds so much like my former roommate it scares me. I don�t believe your state has a trial separation period, or any mandatory cooling off. I would have to look though (but a lawyer could answer this for you.) You can contest a divorce if this is NOT what you want, but only a good lawyer could fill you in on the necessary details here.

IMO, she really needs to sit down and talk with a counselor, not just about your marriage but also about her childhood. It seems to be ruining her family, her life and eventually the life of her children. Her bitterness, resentment and not WANTING to let go is so destructive and counter productive. I don�t understand the need to hold onto the past, the pain, and all that anger. Doesn�t she realize the harm she is doing to her children by treating their father this way? Doesn�t she understand the pain and devastation a divorce will do to them? Does she want them to feel the pain she did as a child?

It seems she was insinuating that you slept at a woman�s house. I think she is hoping that because infidelity would be a much better excuse for leaving you then your lack of belief in God, especially if a respected Pastor wouldn�t allow her to use THAT excuse as a way out of this marriage. Infidelity is another story.

If you have a log record that is accessible at the station, be sure to print it out to show WHERE you were that night. If there is any other material evidence, collect that as well. Do not allow her to �prove� through some contorted plausibility that you MIGHT have been cheating on her. This is something that will very likely come up in court, in a very twisted and untruthful way in an attempt to cast doubt on your fidelity. Your state is also a no-fault divorce state, so for a dissolution of marriage nothing really needs to be proven. It will be relevant in custody matters, especially if you aren�t going to kiss her hind end about custody and visitation. Anything that could possibly be used against you will. As my attorney told me: Live your life like a saint, or better yet a damned cloistered nun. It was good advice, even if it was completely unfair.

It seems she is attempting to deliberately punish you for defying her. This is a very, very poor relationship tactic. Although I think you are all too aware of this.

You have a lot of thinking to do, but please � please check out those websites, talk with the lawyers who specialize in father�s rights and start preparing yourself (financially and emotionally) for a rough road ahead.

She is right that you deserve someone who love you for you. It is unfortunate that she fails to realize that SHE can be that person, if she only would chose that path.

Brighid

Edited to add: DO NOT allow her to push you out of your children's lives, or limit your visitation to every other weekend. Or one day a week in order to "preserve" their schedule. I would suggest working for the most active role you can achieve, but again ... you are the only one that can decide what is best for you and your children.

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02-24-2003, 04:17 AM	#661
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	My cell phone battery is dead, and she left several more messages over the night. Her second to last one, she finally said "please" would I call, but of course I didn't hear it because my phone is off and I was asleep in the station bean-bag chair (not the most comfy bed, I'll tell you!). Anyway, in her next message she said she wasn't going to destroy anything, but was going to take my stuff to my mother's house where I could pick it up. I sent her an e-mail and told her she must not want me to come back home too bad, if she's resorting to this after only one night. I guess I'll see if she responds to the e-mail. I'm not hopeful.

02-24-2003, 06:39 AM	#663
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	Helen, When I told her I wanted to participate in the small men's group, I WAS telling her what I wanted. Since this didn't agree with her perceived requirements for me in this church, my suggestion was immediately rejected. This seems to be getting nastier and nastier, as her reply to my e-mail was typical for her. Vengeful and nasty. She now plans to bring my belongings to my place of work. That should be quite a display. Boy will I be proud when she shows up and humiliates me in front of my co-workers.

02-24-2003, 06:53 AM	#664
Proxima Centauri Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: England, the EU. Posts: 2,403	[COLOR=orange-red]Sorry, there's not much I can add. Usually when you stand up to her she later backs down. If she shows up in fromt of your co workers that could help show any Divorce Court that she is unreasonable and not fit to be sole guardian of the children. I hope things get better again. If you can't stay with your wife try and focus on the good things in life, the peace without the rows. Try and focus on sorting your life out as a single person.If you can stay with her it'l be back to square one. [/COLOR]

02-24-2003, 08:53 AM	#669
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	I'm really sorry, Darren. And she still doesn't seem to acknowledge that it's her behavior that's driving you away. Do NOT let her keep the children. Do everything you can to get as much custody as you can. Not out of vindictiveness, but for their well being. One day she will start screaming at them the way she screams at you.

02-24-2003, 08:54 AM	#670
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	I am at a loss for words. It seems she is searching for excuses here, all the while she admits she is wrong. Gosh, she sounds so much like my former roommate it scares me. I don�t believe your state has a trial separation period, or any mandatory cooling off. I would have to look though (but a lawyer could answer this for you.) You can contest a divorce if this is NOT what you want, but only a good lawyer could fill you in on the necessary details here. IMO, she really needs to sit down and talk with a counselor, not just about your marriage but also about her childhood. It seems to be ruining her family, her life and eventually the life of her children. Her bitterness, resentment and not WANTING to let go is so destructive and counter productive. I don�t understand the need to hold onto the past, the pain, and all that anger. Doesn�t she realize the harm she is doing to her children by treating their father this way? Doesn�t she understand the pain and devastation a divorce will do to them? Does she want them to feel the pain she did as a child? It seems she was insinuating that you slept at a woman�s house. I think she is hoping that because infidelity would be a much better excuse for leaving you then your lack of belief in God, especially if a respected Pastor wouldn�t allow her to use THAT excuse as a way out of this marriage. Infidelity is another story. If you have a log record that is accessible at the station, be sure to print it out to show WHERE you were that night. If there is any other material evidence, collect that as well. Do not allow her to �prove� through some contorted plausibility that you MIGHT have been cheating on her. This is something that will very likely come up in court, in a very twisted and untruthful way in an attempt to cast doubt on your fidelity. Your state is also a no-fault divorce state, so for a dissolution of marriage nothing really needs to be proven. It will be relevant in custody matters, especially if you aren�t going to kiss her hind end about custody and visitation. Anything that could possibly be used against you will. As my attorney told me: Live your life like a saint, or better yet a damned cloistered nun. It was good advice, even if it was completely unfair. It seems she is attempting to deliberately punish you for defying her. This is a very, very poor relationship tactic. Although I think you are all too aware of this. You have a lot of thinking to do, but please � please check out those websites, talk with the lawyers who specialize in father�s rights and start preparing yourself (financially and emotionally) for a rough road ahead. She is right that you deserve someone who love you for you. It is unfortunate that she fails to realize that SHE can be that person, if she only would chose that path. Brighid Edited to add: DO NOT allow her to push you out of your children's lives, or limit your visitation to every other weekend. Or one day a week in order to "preserve" their schedule. I would suggest working for the most active role you can achieve, but again ... you are the only one that can decide what is best for you and your children.

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