Magus55

Since Jesus is perfect and God, his bodily life is more valuable than any other human in existence. Him coming alive again is completely beside the point. Would you be crucified to save your worst enemy, even if you would come alive again? Would you say, die for Hitler? Jesus died to save everyone who has faith in Him. Coming back to life doesn't discount his sacrifice, because He gave up is bodily life for it. And the purpose of coming back was to conquer sin and death. By dying, and coming back to life - Death had no power over him, just as it has no power over those who are saved and faithful to Him.

Magus55

Its not a logical contradiction. You're right, God is complete and total in every way. He needs nothing to sustain himself. But God is also love and a creator. He creates things out of love, not for Him, but for the things He creates. He created humans, not because He needed them, but He wanted humans to enjoy his wonders and glory, and have a fellowship with Him for our benefit. Yes God loves us more than anything and wants whats best for us, but He in no way needs us.

Biff the unclean

Since Jesus is perfect and God, his bodily life is more valuable than any other human in existence.
Sorry I don't buy that kind of crap. Here in America everyone is equal, no person has greater intrinsic value than another person.

Would you be crucified to save your worst enemy, even if you would come alive again?…Jesus died to save everyone who has faith in Him.
So you are saying that he didn't die for everyone then. He didn't die to save his worst enemy only those who believe in him. So a person is only saved by their own works. The act of believing in Jesus and not Jesus himself who won't/can't save you if you don't do this.

And the purpose of coming back was to conquer sin and death.
That negates him being God because it was God who designated what was and what was not sin, and it was God who thought up death to punish us with.

By dying, and coming back to life - Death had no power over him, just as it has no power over those who are saved and faithful to Him.
You may have noticed that everyone and everything still dies. Death has not been conquered, the yawning grave still awaits you. You and everyone you love will still rot in the ground. If you are talking about spirits and assorted spooks the bible says that there were spirits living on in the bosom of Abraham before Jesus. So big hairy deal.

Amaranth

Far from it. I wonder why you even say this, considering you still included it in your models.

Non-sequitur. Jesus' death comes with a lot of "fringe benifits" you forgot to mention - Eternity in paradise, and saving all the people who love you and getting them into eternal paradise, most notably. So, assuming that dying for Hitler would grant me eternal bliss, and eternal bliss for everyone who loved me, would I be crucified for him? Show me the cross. I'm good to go.

Bodily life? Who cares? We're talking heaven here. Paradise. If I believe in heaven, shouldn't I just be begging god to strike me dead daily? Unless, of course, I'm a masochist.

Then, obviously, since death has no power over him, and he came back, his death was meaningless besides as a sort of stage show. Since death means nothing to him, he sacrificed nothing besides a bit of time spent showing off.

Amaranth

God loved his creation enough to drown it when things went wrong. God loved his creation enough to constantly send parts of it to kill off other parts of it. God loved creation enough to send swarms of locusts and rivers of blood to part of it. God even loved his creation enough to burn a few cities in fire, and turn to salt any of his creations dumb enough to look back. God love his greatest creations enough to condemn more than half of them to eternal punishment.

Come on. Tell me how one man being crucified made up for the rampant destruction and wrath of your "loving" god.

Magus55

I see you think you are equal to God. Talk about an Ego. Go destroy the universe please, and then rebuild it.

He died for everyone that accepts His gift. Why is this such a hard concept. If a governor gives a prison inmate a pardon, the inmate has to choose to accept the pardon. The governor already filled out the pardon and offered it, but until its accepted by the inmate, its useless.



Death does have no power over the saved. By conquering sin and death, Jesus paid for the crimes we committed. Whereas without Jesus, we would all be destined for Hell. Billions of people will escape death at the rapture, and those who have died, will be brought back to life. Hence, death has no power over the saved in Christ.

Magus55

Why do i say this? Are you having the same ego trip as Biff, claiming you are equal to the Almighty Creator of the Universe? Equal to He that always was, is and will be? Hardly. Jesus' life ismore valuable than any of ours. He was the only human on earth who was sinless and perfect.

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Non-sequitur. Jesus' death comes with a lot of "fringe benifits" you forgot to mention - Eternity in paradise, and saving all the people who love you and getting them into eternal paradise, most notably. So, assuming that dying for Hitler would grant me eternal bliss, and eternal bliss for everyone who loved me, would I be crucified for him? Show me the cross. I'm good to go.

Perhaps you aren't understanding. Jesus is God in human form. Jesus, God the Creator of the Universe.. one in the same. Jesus was in Heaven for eternity. His ressurection didn't give Him any fringe benefits He didn't already have or deserve. Coming to Earth and dying is How God saves us. The ressurection after His death brought Him back to the Right hand of God the Father where He has always been and belongs. Jesus didn't die for the benefits. He already had them. He gave up those benefits for a short time to save us. He did it out of love, not selfish reasons. You however, would only sacrifice yourself for Hitler if you got something out of it. You are hardly equal to God.

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Then, obviously, since death has no power over him, and he came back, his death was meaningless besides as a sort of stage show. Since death means nothing to him, he sacrificed nothing besides a bit of time spent showing off.

Death itself meant something to him. He still had a completely human body, with pain receptors and emotional trauma. Jesus still suffered like you or I would ( actually more since the burden of what He paid for was worse than the crucifiction itself.)

winstonjen

Are you sure? Those pedophile priests seem to be 'training' the children for something else - according to some of them, oral sex is a sacrament.

winstonjen

Actually, it does discount it entirely. A sacrifice is something given up FOR GOOD, with no hope, knowledge or intention of getting it back. Jesus' death was more like a loan, a stubbed toe by our standards. So to answer your question, I would stub my toe for Hitler, because it doesn't hurt that much, and means nothing in the end.

Opus36

Ok I have an idea on why "God" created humans: I'll take it from the Catholic Churches perspective.

God needs things, like money. So he created man and gave him the ability to reporduce. More people, more money. So then there were millions of humans. Now he needed a way to collect that is why he created the church. It gave him a central location for all the humans to bring their money to him. But he still wasn't bring in enough, he has debts. If some one doesn't pay the gas bill, they will shut the sun off. That is when he created Bingo.