Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JonathanChance · 05-07-2003, 06:10 PM

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Liberals intent on attacking Christians

Published Wednesday, May 7, 2003 11:16:03 AM Central Time

FROM DENNIS PAPE

Menominee Township

There is an assault going on -- and the liberal social engineers have declared that Christians are the enemy. Amidst their cries of "diversity" and "tolerance" it has become fashionable to bash Christians. Discriminate against them, and to deny the Christian roots of the American Republic.

They resent how Christians pose constant reminders to them -- and to an American society that is unsure about following them -- that God has absolute standards of right and wrong.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed (John 3:19-20).

These anti-Christian liberals want to achieve a new, humanistic America where our children will be protected from outmoded Christian ideas and will enjoy freedom from religion -- not freedom of religion. They do not respect God's definition of the family and are intent on discrediting his wisdom in raising children as they attempt to rewrite his guidelines for morality.

These social liberals believe man has the only answers for himself. They think that perhaps a new, manmade spirituality eventually may be useful in managing the populace, but frankly would prefer that it not be moralistic religion with rules or absolute right and wrong. They certainly do not want the new society they are molding to hang onto any "biased" religion that proclaims Jesus Christ is the Only Way (John 14:6) or that all men and women are called by their creator to have a warm, personal relationship with him. We Christians irritate these social liberals when we proclaim the truth of God's liberating love. We infuriate them when we remind them of our Lord's true and steadfast faithfulness.

For those who know the Bible, this does not surprise us because Jesus told us, "All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved" (Matthew 10:22).

The leftist battle cry, the leftist social liberals continue to harangue on the "separation of church and state" as justification for eliminating religious issues from public view. The phrase "Separation of Church and State" has been bandied about for so long that 67 percent of all Americans believe that it is actually in the Constitution. In fact, those three words appear nowhere in the Constitution.

Oblivious to the irrelevance of their arguments, and at the same time refusing to acknowledge that no document of state, let alone the Constitution, has ever proposed such a concept, those on the left have tried to convince the American people that our founding documents warned of the dangers of mixing politics and religion.

In the absence of constitutional evidence, the mere opinion of private individuals or groups that there should be absolute separation of church and state hardly creates a "great American principle." They have thus misled millions and worked against the public interest by damaging the commitment to ethics and moral values that come only through religious belief.

It must be remembered that neutrality is impossible. Some authority, whether it be God or man, is used as the reference point for all enacted laws. If a political system rejects one authority, it adopts another. If a biblical moral system is not being legislated, then an immoral system is being legislated. Any moral system that does not put Jesus Christ at its center, denies Christ:

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other..." (Matthew 6:26) and, "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatter" (12:30).

Here we go again.....

Jewel · 05-07-2003, 07:03 PM

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There is an assault going on -- and the liberal social engineers have declared that Christians are the enemy. Amidst their cries of "diversity" and "tolerance" it has become fashionable to bash Christians. Discriminate against them, and to deny the Christian roots of the American Republic.

They resent how Christians pose constant reminders to them -- and to an American society that is unsure about following them -- that God has absolute standards of right and wrong.

Well, thats news to me. Apearantly there are no Christain liberals. And if I'm reading this right Christains are denied their worship! Oh dear!

All I resent is drivel like this being passed as truth.

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These anti-Christian liberals want to achieve a new, humanistic America where our children will be protected from outmoded Christian ideas and will enjoy freedom from religion -- not freedom of religion. They do not respect God's definition of the family and are intent on discrediting his wisdom in raising children as they attempt to rewrite his guidelines for morality.

Um, you cannot have freedom of relegion without also being free to have no religion at all. Nope, cannot do it.

They can raise their children any way they see fit as long as they do not endanger said children. I should be alotted the same freedom. I don't see us going into Christain schools demanding that they teach evolution.

And if the god of the Bible is a moral creature, then I most certainly would rewrite it's idea of morality, for it is quite flawed.

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We Christians irritate these social liberals when we proclaim the truth of God's liberating love. We infuriate them when we remind them of our Lord's true and steadfast faithfulness.

He got one thing right. Christians like him do irritate me. They do infuriate me. However this is so because I am tired of having their religion shoved down my throat every time I turn around. I don't care what people like him believe. Let them believe it -- but his rights end where mine begin.

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For those who know the Bible, this does not surprise us because Jesus told us, "All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved" (Matthew 10:22).

Martyr complex. Always the victim.

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The leftist battle cry, the leftist social liberals continue to harangue on the "separation of church and state" as justification for eliminating religious issues from public view. The phrase "Separation of Church and State" has been bandied about for so long that 67 percent of all Americans believe that it is actually in the Constitution. In fact, those three words appear nowhere in the Constitution.

Oblivious to the irrelevance of their arguments, and at the same time refusing to acknowledge that no document of state, let alone the Constitution, has ever proposed such a concept, those on the left have tried to convince the American people that our founding documents warned of the dangers of mixing politics and religion.

A real historian, this one... Just like their arguements against evolution -- just ignore the mountain of evidence that contradicts them and keep repeating the same lies.

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It must be remembered that neutrality is impossible. Some authority, whether it be God or man, is used as the reference point for all enacted laws. If a political system rejects one authority, it adopts another. If a biblical moral system is not being legislated, then an immoral system is being legislated. Any moral system that does not put Jesus Christ at its center, denies Christ:

Our law comes from the authority of humans. That which is good for the tribe vs. that which is not good for the tribe. It's really no mystery. We do have some really wacked laws, but as far as I can tell most of them (blue laws, for instance) were enacted for religious reasons and are likely to be unconstitutional laws.

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"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatter" (12:30).

Well, Dennis -- I am not with you.

gravitybow · 05-07-2003, 09:39 PM

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Dennis whines:
The phrase "Separation of Church and State" has been bandied about for so long that 67 percent of all Americans believe that it is actually in the Constitution. In fact, those three words appear nowhere in the Constitution.

Of course, Christianity is completely immune from the same charge:

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from the Worldwide Church of God:
Those who do not accept the Trinity doctrine reject it in part because the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. Of course, there is no verse that says "God is three Persons" or "God is a Trinity." This is all quite evident and true, strictly speaking, but it proves nothing. There are many words and phrases that Christians use, which are not found in the Bible. For example, the word "Bible" is not found in the Bible.

nogods4me · 05-08-2003, 05:03 AM

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The phrase "Separation of Church and State" has been bandied about for so long that 67 percent of all Americans believe that it is actually in the Constitution. In fact, those three words appear nowhere in the Constitution.

Um, excuse me, but I count 5 words in that phrase.

gravitybow · 05-08-2003, 05:51 AM

I have one word to say about that: you're correct.

Stephen Maturin · 05-08-2003, 06:28 AM

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Originally posted by gravitybow
I have one word to say about that: you're correct.

You guys rock relentlessly. Kudos aplenty to Jewel for a first-rate deconstruction job on that letter.

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Oh Denny Boy, the Lord, the Lord is Calling sez:

In fact, those three words appear nowhere in the Constitution.

Man, what a mess. Aside from the basic math difficulties this statement evidences, it appears that the author has word recognition problems. A more careful reading of the constitution might just reveal that the word "state" does in fact appear. More than once, even.

Doesn't it just make you feel all warm and tingly inside when fundies start spouting stuff like "He who is not with Me is against Me"? So very loving and inclusive, kinda like "Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."

Dianna · 05-08-2003, 06:52 AM

Please tell me it was just a very long letter to the editor, and not a columnist's doing...please?

Dianna.

gallo · 05-08-2003, 08:04 AM

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Oblivious to the irrelevance of their arguments, and at the same time refusing to acknowledge that no document of state, let alone the Constitution, has ever proposed such a concept [separation of church and state], those on the left have tried to convince the American people that our founding documents warned of the dangers of mixing politics and religion.

I don't find words like "interstate commerce" in the Constitution either. I guess that means that the federal government has no right to regulate it.

Hasn't this guy ever read the Constitution? The Constitution most certainly does propose such a concept. The exact words may not be there but the concept is. In fact, it was in explaining the concept of the establishment clause that Thomas Jefferson used the words "...wall of separation between church and state..."

Perhaps the author of the article never attended high school. It seems that I learned way back then that part of the power of the Constitution is in its economy of words. It is not what it says, but what it means. I also learned that when questions about its meaning arise, it is the job of the Supreme Court to decide what it means. So far, in every case where it has considered the question of what "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," it has decided that it does in fact mean that churh and state are separate. Thomas Jefferson was even quoted in at least one decision.

Jet Grind · 05-08-2003, 08:57 AM

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These anti-Christian liberals want to achieve a new, humanistic America where our children will be protected from outmoded Christian ideas and will enjoy freedom from religion -- not freedom of religion. They do not respect God's definition of the family and are intent on discrediting his wisdom in raising children as they attempt to rewrite his guidelines for morality.

News flash buddy: Most liberals are Christian!!! The rest of this is such complete and utter BS that it's not even worth commenting about.

Shake · 05-10-2003, 12:53 PM

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The leftist battle cry, the leftist social liberals continue to harangue on the "separation of church and state" as justification for eliminating religious issues from public view. The phrase "Separation of Church and State" has been bandied about for so long that 67 percent of all Americans believe that it is actually in the Constitution. In fact, those three words appear nowhere in the Constitution.

In fact, neither does 'God', nor 'Christian.'

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05-08-2003, 05:51 AM	#5
gravitybow Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Washington, NC Posts: 1,696	I have one word to say about that: you're correct.

05-08-2003, 06:52 AM	#7
Dianna Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Central Florida Posts: 86	Please tell me it was just a very long letter to the editor, and not a columnist's doing...please? Dianna.

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