HelenM

Helen: "I'd rather be innocent than prove the people right who thought I was guilty."

Response: Of course you would. That's a typical culturally-ingrained martyr mentality.

It is?

I thought it was simply being a person with high ethical standards?!

I suppose this might get moved to morals. I posted it here in MRD because that's where the comment and response were, originally.

love
Helen

irishajo

Given the above definition, I think that the person who made that statement to you misunderstands the concept of martyrdom.

I'm with you, Helen.

Perchance

I've heard the word "martyr" before used to mean someone who likes to suffer, simply because it makes him or her feel virtuous. I don't think wanting to hold to high ethical standards makes anyone a martyr, though.

And I don't think there's a "culturally-ingrained martyr mentality" for individuals. Groups, yes, who watch certain groups pitied as victims and then protected, and decide that they're victims, too (of racism, reverse racism, or whatever it's popular to be a victim of this week).

But again, I don't think that wanting to be innocent takes any part in that.

-Perchance.

Straight Hate

I don't know about martyrdom, but I've met very few people who don't loving being the victim:

"I got sooo hammered last night!"
"I work 60 hour weeks!"
"I got zero sleep last night!"

Is it because we think that suffering gains us respect and admiration - acceptence from our peers? Or do we just love to whine about inane shit?

Veil of Fire

The mentality I referred to is the feeling that it's better to be cruicified for something you DIDN'T do than it is to be crucified for something you DID do.

Even though the result is the same, you can feel good and moral and righteous about yourself while trying to breathe your own blood.

rebelnerd

I think it's because people like to whine.
Oh, poor me! I suffer so much! Have pity on me!

Note: This is in no way a reference to HelenSL,
I agree with her view on the thread mentioned.


Filo

Gurdur

Let's see:

if and only if you're going to be crucified anyway, then it might well be better to at least feel in the moral right - small comfort, but better than none.

As much as I would be very careful and downright probing before ever doing so, I would agree with HelenSLn here; I have no doubt her attitude is not a "culturally-ingrained martyr mentality" in this case.

___________

HelenSL, save me the and the platitudes; you and I still don't share any bedrock assumptions or definitions, as much as that might surprise you.

Perchance

I hadn't even thought about the "sleep" thing.

For some reason, among English graduate TA's, it's regarded as a great sport to see who got the least amount of sleep during the previous week/month/year:

"Well, I only got four hours of sleep last night because I was studying for X."

"Well, I only got two hours of sleep. I'm spent seventy hours on this paper now!" (Which, having read the paper in question, I don't believe for a minute.)

"I've had no sleep for three days straight!"

Actually, this wouldn't be so annoying if it wasn't used for a kind of catch-all excuse. If someone's had less than 9 or 10 hours of sleep, you're supposed to murmur around them, not expect them to do too much, and so on.

I think martyrdom as per the dictionary definition is relatively rare in our society; martyrdom in the sense of being crucified on the Cross of Whining is alive and well all around us.

-Perchance.

seebs

If the death is the same, then the question is "would you rather do this thing, or not do it", and if you think it's a "bad" thing, then the answer should be "not do it".

HelenM

It's never better to be crucified, is it?

Sure! Far be it from me to assume or infer that we did!

I try to take [the serious part of] posts at face value, if at all possible, and tend to be disappointed when other people don't do likewise.

Anyway, it's harder to surprise me than it used to be. Still possible, I expect, but harder.

I think it's simply because people like talking about themselves, actually. The 'feel sorry for me' type of comment or 'aren't I wonderful to still have a functioning brain on so little sleep' are specific manifestations of that.

love
Helen