Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Koyaanisqatsi · 04-12-2002, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Just like you believe in new discoveries in evolution even before you see them.

Like others before me, I'll let this one slide and just point out three things:
<ol type="1">[*] You don't know me and have no idea what I do or do not "believe."[*] I don't believe anything; I either know, don't know or think it may be based upon reasonable standards of basic evidentiary procedures.[*] I have little to no knowledge or understanding of Evolution, beyond my own common sense, something I strongly suggest you rescue from the grasp of your cult programming[/list=a]

You can start with the fingers. Ever heard of Rigor Mortis? Skeptical analysis? Fraud?

You say you believe it, yet have never seen the body, were not there when the casket was opened and do not know any of the people involved.

So, upon what are you basing your belief? Cult programming.

Goliath · 04-12-2002, 07:06 AM

It would seem that our "new poster," Half-Life is nothing more than another scared, drive-by xian who is not interested in intelligent discussion.

What a pity.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Jefferson · 04-12-2002, 07:29 AM

Is it just me, or is someone trying to make a cloaked case for Christianity? It's a dinosaur--literally--in an age of teleportation and advanced artificial intelligence. But let's just all have faith right, God, Santa, the Easter Bunny and even the tooth fairy would appreciate that...it makes their job much easier.

ex-preacher · 04-12-2002, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jefferson:
Is it just me, or is someone trying to make a cloaked case for Christianity? It's a dinosaur--literally--in an age of teleportation and advanced artificial intelligence.

I hate to be a nitpicker (or do I?), but misuse of the word "literally" is one of my pet peeves. Christianity is not literally a dinosaur. And no one has ever literally drowned in paper (to my knowledge).

Also - teleportation? Have I missed a major development in science? Somebody, please beam me up!

Pomp · 04-12-2002, 11:37 AM

Since we're being pedantic, he's also responded to posts, so he's not a drive-by Xian, and we have no evidence that he's not interested in intelligent discussion. It hasn't even been 24 hours since his last post.

Half-Life · 04-12-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sighhswolf:


Hi Rod,
Welcome.
I think the very first thing you need to learn when dealing with non-believers is:
Extraordinary claims....require extraordinary proofs.

Wolf

Why is that?

Half-Life · 04-12-2002, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Typhon:
The Question of Miracles:

Hello half-life,

Welcome to the board by another semi-newbie. I'd like to suggest that regardless of your faith, you approach the presentation of miracles with some simple rules. Otherwise, even if the miraculous did exist, you would liable to be fooled frequently by false ones (stands to reason).

1. Evidence: What is the real evidence for the miracle? Is it a story? Is it a legend? Did happen recently, or long ago?

These all matter. People make up stories all the time, especially religious or superstitious people. Sometimes the make up stories with good intentions, other times they are just lies. Good people, especially religious people, will lie for what they think are good reasons, sometimes, they lie because they really, really want that thing to be true, so even lie to themselves until they believe it.

Stories are unreliable. If you tell a story to one friend in class, and have them tell the same story, or even write it down, and then have that person tell it to another, and so on, by the time that story gets back to you, it's likely to be changed, embellished, or even totally wrong.

Things that happen in the past, especially in times when science was still new and people didn't really understand how the world worked, not only could be lies, stories that got changed, but they could describe things as miraculous, that we would understand to be just natural, today. Miracles happened all the time in the Middle Ages. Partly this was due to the fact that most people all thought that common, everyday things were more mysterious and the product of supernatural forces (such as sickness, famine, floods, and mental illness to just a name a few). Faith and ecstasy in religion was part of the culture, and as a result, there are LOTS of miracles that occur in Medieval times (such as saints talking to animals, healing lepers, flying, doing battles with serpents and dragons, bodies uncorrupted by fire, etc.) that we never hear about today, because people really don't believe in a lot of those things anymore, just like they don't believe in faeries and goblins or that witches spoil the cream or put hexes on your cattle.

[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Typhon ]

Snip all that other info otherwise the quote would be too long.

if you could prove a miracle, would you believe in God? I'll give an example: Stigmata. I'm not saying its proven, but if it was, would you believe? if the source was a good one, would then be compelled to believe it more?

beachbum · 04-12-2002, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Half-Life:
Snip all that other info otherwise the quote would be too long.

if you could prove a miracle, would you believe in God? I'll give an example: Stigmata. I'm not saying its proven, but if it was, would you believe? if the source was a good one, would then be compelled to believe it more?

Stigmata? Don't make me laugh. There is so much BS surrounding that lame idea. The sufferers cannot get the correct placement of the wounds. They always bleed from the palms and it has been shown that if nails had been used they would have to have been driven into the wrist. There is scripture about not breaking any of the bones of JC. The only way to nail someone to a cross and not break any bones would be through the wrist and ankles. That is the same reason given that JC died in one day, before sundown, rather than last a few days like most crucified people. At sundown the soldiers broke the legs of the cruficied.

Therefore, stigmata is a hoax or a terrible mental condition. No miracle here. Now getting a good BM or having ones cat restored to health, that's a miracle.

hezekiah jones · 04-12-2002, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Half-Life:
I'll give an example: Stigmata. I'm not saying its proven, but if it was, would you believe?

I'll give an example: I'm Frank Sinatra. I'm not saying I can prove I'm Frank Sinatra, but if I could prove I was Frank Sinatra, would you believe me?

(Hey Bill Snedden: Did I bring back some excruciating memories?

)

Sci_Fidelity · 04-12-2002, 12:05 PM

Half life,

Perhaps you can clear something up for me- why is it that all the supposed miracles you hear about are so lame or otherwise easily explained? You know, old bags throwing away their canes and such. When was the last time you saw an amputee pray for a new limb and actually get one?

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04-12-2002, 07:06 AM	#22
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	It would seem that our "new poster," Half-Life is nothing more than another scared, drive-by xian who is not interested in intelligent discussion. What a pity. Sincerely, Goliath

04-12-2002, 07:29 AM	#23
Jefferson Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California Posts: 11	Is it just me, or is someone trying to make a cloaked case for Christianity? It's a dinosaur--literally--in an age of teleportation and advanced artificial intelligence. But let's just all have faith right, God, Santa, the Easter Bunny and even the tooth fairy would appreciate that...it makes their job much easier.

04-12-2002, 11:37 AM	#25
Pomp Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Indianapolis area Posts: 3,468	Since we're being pedantic, he's also responded to posts, so he's not a drive-by Xian, and we have no evidence that he's not interested in intelligent discussion. It hasn't even been 24 hours since his last post.

04-12-2002, 12:05 PM	#30
Sci_Fidelity Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 595	Half life, Perhaps you can clear something up for me- why is it that all the supposed miracles you hear about are so lame or otherwise easily explained? You know, old bags throwing away their canes and such. When was the last time you saw an amputee pray for a new limb and actually get one?

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