Gemma Therese

Godless Dave,

Your post neither suprised nor upset me, as it is next to impossible for an athiest to revere or even appreciate the contemplative life.

Gemma Therese

ybnormal

A Political Discussions thread where a woman's beliefs are being exploited for the sake of humor.
What's the difference?

Gemma Therese

Ayn Rand's family is not coming on this board and laughing at her beliefs.

Gemma Therese

Bree

It's one thing to lead a secluded life and pray for good things to happen to people. It's quite another to go out there and MAKE those good things happen. In my mind, it's simply a question of "do you have enough balls to put yourself out on the line and take a few risks in order to make things better for someone else?"

Godless Dave

I wasn't trying to suprise or upset you. You asked me to read something, I read it, and gave you my reaction. You're right, I don't revere or appreciate the "contemplative" life described in that article. To me it seems a greivous waste of human potential.

I can understand a desire to have some relief from the outside world, and I can appreciate those people who spend part of their time contemplating morality and philosophy. I understand that time spent in ritual and manual labor can help clear the mind. I do admire people who see that there is more to life than material possessions and comforts.

But the people described in that article have renounced worldly comforts and possessions and gotten nothing return. Self-sacrifice is noble only when it benefits someone else. A poor parent who goes hungry so her children have enough to eat is noble. A person who goes hungry just because they feel like it is not. A talented person who uses their talents to get aid to the poor and needy instead of amassing personal wealth is noble. Shutting yourself away in a cloister does not help anybody. If some people find that lifestyle personally rewarding then they should live it, but they should not be held up as an example of virtue. There is nothing inherently virtuous in choosing to live a life of poverty. There is nothing virtuous about submitting to someone else's rules and discipline. There is nothing virtuous about being celibate for life. If some people are happy living that way then I'm glad they're free to do so, but they are not role models and it is not a noble life.

Gemma Therese

Godless Dave,

You will probably never see the value or beauty in the contemplative life as an atheist.

That's just the way it is.

Gemma Therese

Proxima Centauri

Gemma Therese, you site as one of your interests, "the psychology of atheism". I will try and help you to understand us better.
Imagine you visit a psychiatric hospital. You are introduced to a patient who spends the bulk of every day listening to voices, which only the patient can hear, and contemplating those voices. The patient can be diverted from this contemplation for short periods during meals or when the patient is doing occupational therapy compassionately arranged by the hospital. The kind nurses who look after the patient tell you that the patient is likely to carry on like this for the rest of his/her natural life.
Gemma Therese, would you not feel compassion for this patient? Gemma Therese, would you not feel sadness about this patient's wasted and pointless life?
That's how we feel when we think about monks and nuns spending their lived contemplating a deity whom we believe doesn't exist In the case of weak atheists or agnostics this is a deity which we believe probably doesn't exist. The monks and nuns also enjoy short breaks from contemplation during meals or during work, which the Religious Order allows.

Gemma Therese

B. Shack,

To try and make a parallel between a schizophrenic (?) patient in a mental hospital and the lives of monks and nuns is juvenile, misguided, and ignorant.

You'll have to do a lot better than that.

Gemma Therese

ybnormal

So, uh, it's OK with you then, if folks come on this board and laugh at other people's beliefs, so long as they are laughing at someone else's family.

Proxima Centauri

Patients in a mental hospital are contemplating entities which they are convinced exist but which do not really exist.
Monks and nuns in a religious order are contemplating entities which they are convinced exist but which do not really exist.

The comparison is logical.