brighid

Iron Monkey,

Thank you for your very kind words and I am glad they were able to help you in some way.

As a woman, in a less partriarchial/tribal/traditional society I have many of the same fears your fiance seems to potentially have. Motherhood and caring for a family almost exclusively while ones husband works (often long hours) is a choice a woman needs to WANT to make. It cannot be done because society demands a woman place be beside the hearth with one child on hip and another on the breast (perhaps with another one growing in her womb.)

Presently, she is doing vitally important work that can very well help the people of her country. I think that is a noble endeavour, and at least to me speaks volumes as to her character and the depth of compassion she possesses. Those are probably some of the qualities that have helped you love her so that you have been in so much torment over this situation.

In that respect alone I can see why it would be difficult for her to abandon this path to simply be wife and mother. It is also truly unfortunate that work such as hers pays less then someone (just like me working in IT) who works with computers all day. It seems to me she does this work not only for the experience of work, but because it is also a passion. That is a very good combination, even if it doesn't always produce the largest pay check.

I am one of the independent women you speak of ;P I can relate to her in many ways. Although we come from very different cultures and a great expanse of Earth, Air and Sea seperate us there is a kinship in ones womanhood that is difficult to sometimes explain. We, as a gender, have so long suffered under the oppression of men. It really hasn't been THAT long since we (at least in the US and Europe) have been able to vote, divorce, receive and education, etc. We still see the oppression and harm that comes to many fellow women at the hands of their husbands because they give up that independence and take their "rightful" place as dutiful wife. I know so very many women who do this and are absolutely miserable because they need something more. They need to contribute to society, and to their home beyond getting the children off to school, scrubbing the floors, and preparing meals. For some women, this life can be stiffling.

If she choses, and says that she is now ready and wants to devote that time to her family exclusively .... things will be much better (IMHO.) Honestly, I know more women then I can count who went to school and educated themselves in a field they enjoyed. They then got married and agreed (thinking it was best and what they SHOULD do) to be the stay at home wife and mother to be absolutely downtrodden a few years into it. This stress and feeling of dependence and lack of contribution makes many women very unhappy and it shows in the quality of their familial interaction (often showing up in the behavior of their children) and their marital relationships.

You can find a balance. I do agree that a temporary dependence on ones spouse is entirely acceptable, as long as it is temporary.

My husband and I have chosen to take a specific set of time to pay off some lingering debt, and then for one year live off his salary alone while mine gets banked so we may have a more secure financial footing to have another child. It makes no difference to him if I chose to work, or stay at home. The decision is mine to make, and furthermore he feels some competitiveness with me in wanting to be the "house husband." He is currently pursuing his MBA and there will be sacrifices we all make. I know those short term sacrifices will equate into long term gains. We both find the effort to be worth it.

Right now, I do want to stay home more (I am 31.) I do not want to be 100% at home and I must (for my own sanity) have something outside of the home that brings even a small amount of income when I do chose to do this. At the very least I need an intellectually stimulating outlet to preserve my ability to think sharply.

Best wishes,
Brighid

brighid

Keyser,

I wouldn't be too quick in judging her as immature or wanting the "Barbie" doll wedding. Women typically have many, many years of emotional investment and planning regarding their wedding day. I know I did. I would think it is a sign of maturity that she is willing to work and help pay for what she wants and not expect her fiance to foot the bill just because of her desires.

My engagement was longer because (and although we were very frugal IMO) I wanted certain things. I scaled down many of my childhood fantasies and did very serious bargain shopping, but it was almost exactly as I had always wanted it to be. He and split the cost of the wedding according to our incomes, which at the time ended up equally because we both made about the same at that point in our relationship. However, he had more debt then I because of his divorce and he has repaid that exclusively.

Brighid

HelenM

I agree. I hope that IM and his fiancee can somehow 'meet in the middle' regarding their wedding desires.

Helen

Ted Hoffman

Sorry. Its okay, its your experience that made you who you are today. I was on the edge and I did not even know it.
You guys helped me in the nick of time.

Brighid, thanks for your post. Me and her are both Kenyans - she is working for a US - funded organization (Action Against Hunger) under WFP. The conflict in this scenario is also brought about by the changing rules. See, I have to change now yet she aparently doesn't. I employed logic because it also uses brute force (if youve played chess with a computer you know how violent logic can be) because the manchild is trained to use force and be agressive - perhaps to protect his family from any danger (if we employ evolutionary logic).
Then as he comes of age, he finds that he cant use the same system to sustain a healthy relationship with a woman.
Its tough. I never expected this. But then, its about growing up.
Its challenging.

Ted Hoffman

Yeah, I think brighid was right about that - her being mature enough not to use me as a crutch for meeting her dreams , keyser was right about prioritizing and being realistic.
But I am okay with it - if it makes her happy, I am happy.

keyser_soze

That's all that matters. As long as you are both happy, everything else will fall into place on it's own. I envy you your future.

HelenM

Brighid, I think it's wonderful that your job is both an intellectually stimulating outlet and provides you with the financial independence you desire. I hope you can cut down on the amount you work until you can be at home the amount you want.

I'd also just like to comment though that I think it's possible to find intellectually stimulating outlets in other ways than having a paid job. I can see that a job is the best way if you want/need the money. And, fwiw, I feel sorry for people whose jobs and other activities are leaving them still feeling they are lacking an intellectually stimulating outlet.

Anyway, I'm glad that your advice has been helpful to IM and I'm not surprised - I always appreciate reading your wisdom and insight regarding relationships. (Not that you don't have other wisdom and insight but those posts seem to be the ones I end up reading)

Helen

HelenM

I think if she's unhappy, you're going to find it hard to be happy.

But if what you're doing to make her happy is making you unhappy, that's not going to work either.

Somehow you both need to find that balance where you're happy enough and independent enough, yet caring about each other enough and committed enough, that the relationship is worth the struggles

Giving up wanting to be happy is not the answer; finding out how you can both be happy enough in the relationship is what I suggest you aim at together.

Helen

Treacle Worshipper

IM,
I'm sorry if I came across as harsh; I'm over-sensitive to deceit in relationships

It's good to know that things are starting to come together for you & your fiancee Listen to Helen, brigid & keyser; they know what they're talking about.

Best Wishes,
TW

brighid

HelenM,

I agree!! I also know many women (although far fewer) who are very active stay at home mothers who absolutely love their "work." One in particular comes from one of those marriages I admire (she and her husband are atheists). She lived a very full life prior to marriage and family (marrying in her 30's). She and her husband have three very handsome, intelligent, happy, talented boys. Her husband, although he has a very lucrative job with many pressures, is VERY involved in all aspects of their lives. She also does some free lance art (she is a fantastic artist IMO) and runs many programs at her children's various school (scene production for theatre, cultural awareness, etc.) She isn't unhappy and comments that she would do all this if she didn't love it! She also cooks nearly everything from scratch! She is a domestic goddess

I find that those women who have experienced life, worked and understand the pressures of providing for a family (at least in part), who chose that it is now their time to devote to family and home (not because they feel it is their female obligation) are so much more fulfilled as human beings. This also makes them better wives and mothers. I am sure many women who don't have those experiences are fulfilled as well. I don't mean to imply otherwise, but simply state my general experience

Thank you also for the kind words. You are a dear and I mutually respect the reasoned advice you very often give!

Brighid